Gate Keeper wrote: This is proof that the Presbyterian Church does not follow the Bible or does it read it..
If you were a gatekeeper you would recognize that these are Presbyterian in name only. Rev.11:1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
A Christian must be in a Covenantal relationship with Jehovah other wise he is no Jew inwardly but a Gentile.
Jesus Christ is יהוה צדקנו Yĕhovah tsidqenuw The Lord our Righteousness Jer. 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Your clarification was helpful to me, CV. We have not been left as orphans so as not to know by God's Word and Spirit when me must leave a church communion for conscience sake. None that I am familiar with, have considered this sect of Presbyterianism viable for many years, there are steps that lead to this kind of reckless abandon.
This past Lord's day I read an excellent sermon of William Guthrie's on the text from Isaiah 44:3 "For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:" Never have I read a more encouraging sermon on the veracity of the promises of God, as Peter wrote by the Spirit 2 Peter 1:3-4 "According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."
I commend it to you CV, it strengthen my faith and hope and gave great reasons to love with awe our Triune God; Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
CV wrote: ...Christ has NOT called us to fight for, or save, a fallen church... There is a common trend that as these big denominations, (sick from the outset, viz-a-viz Anglicans), act out in rebellion against God, the faithful form a schism...
CV Two things Just for clarification: 1. Is it the faithful that form a sinful schism? wouldn't it be the errant?
2. Isn't there a difference between a fallen Church and an apostate church, it would seem to me the apostle and prophet John indicates so in Rev.3:9 "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee."
The apostle John is speaking to the Church of Philadelphia as he did the other 6 Churches and most of these assemblies (one church in different locations) had things that needed correction. It would seem to me important to have a way to determine who is in the apostolic church and that should be based on the foundational doctrine of the apostles and prophets Jesus Christ the Head of the corner, or chief corner stone, that they hold and practice or do not. Isn't a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense different?
It would seem to me, to properly apply the text in Deuteronomy it would need to be coming from a nation who themselves were under the King in Jeshurun or One greater than Moses, even the Kingship of Jesus Christ. He is the NT Church's King and Head and who should be the Prophet, Priest and King of their brother, who is prepared by God,to like David rule in the fear of God, to lead his people Israel, with a heart after God. The moral law interpreted through the Gospel of peace is the only hope for the Israel of God in every nation. O Lord, build thy Church that Thou has purchased so dearly.
postend wrote: ...EG:: Is faith the gift of God - Or mans ability to believe and accept Christ? EG:: Is God sovereign at all times of human existence, including when we are converted/born again? EG:: Is election an act of God on a specific group of people which God has foreknowledge about and predestinated them to election? Postend,
I could be mistaken but I believe that postend sees very little difference between Arminianism and the Church of Rome.
I believe most here would agree that a Papist can come to Christ but he must leave all of Rome's damnable heresies behind and come out of her. Because there is so much mixture in the fundamentalist movement it is not so easy to recognize an Arminian without knowing their heart. We don't. But if ones doctrine is Arminian we can recognize that. Sadly, this is not the best way to address the problem because there is too much room for error. Dopey's quote from James works here.
Mohamed wrote: Father Cherubim Awad , that guy is a LAYER, he himself said to the Egyptian newspapers like (AlWafd) that Salafis are not responsible for that attack against Imbaba's church and that they are (peaceful people), the fathers of coptic church are insincere and they want to rise the sedition in Egypt
It is very hard to know who to believe when we is listen to various sources of Media. Unless one lives in the nation spoken of where these things are occurring, we tend to see it from our own national perspective. It is all we know after all, unless we have traveled or have international friends.
I did find your input interesting related to some of my own concerns. My concerns are based on what I have observed in the east and what I believe from the Bible.
times of the signs wrote: ... The flood of iniquity has been released... In the name of the strawman "discrimination" nations have allowed the vile depravity of the human fallen nature to escalate to a power where they reject the law and doctrine of God and set up their own idol of human knowledge, culture and independance. The wrath of God is revealed. Rom 1:25 ...
times of the signs,
This text came to mind as well 2Tim.3:2 Timothy 3:1-5 "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."
May the Lord have mercy on all those who are known to Him and grant them grace and peace sufficient for the times, in the unity of the faith that is in Jesus Christ our Lord.
CHM wrote: Aren't Presbyterians Doomed? Now that Presbyterians in faithful denominations comprise a mere 0.2% of the U.S. population, what's their hope for survival?
That depends on what you mean by Presbyterian? Presbyterian is Church rule or Government by a body of Presbyters or elders and they are bound together as a people because there is no laity and clergy in true Presbyterial Church Government. Rather elders (pastors/teachers) being Christ's gifts to his Church are for His Church's order and comeliness. Their bonds are based on the veracity of the Scripture. For any governing institution(s)to go contrary to the Scripture when their very existence is dependent on the Scripture is to loose their Divine right or charter and they will no stand.
All the present day sectaries who are Presbyterian in name only do not constitute will be exposed as being essentially pluralism and the very opposite of what was intended for the Church in Ephesians 4.
What is their (the 2%'s) hope you ask?
Psalm 60:11Give us help from trouble: for vain is the help of man. 12Through God we shall do valiantly: for he it is that shall tread down our enemies.
another focus wrote: On that point "New in Focus" How do you read these instructions? 2Tim 3:1-5 2 John9-11
It is apparent your emphasis was on the words 'from such turn away" and "receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed,"
My understanding of these texts as relates to what I stated about Paul's not expecting a new denomination to arise is what you are asking, if I rightly understand what you are trying to ascertain by doing so.
I will refer you to a choice servant of the Lord Jesus Christ for his most able instruction in detail, Mr.James Renwick for your answer as he has dealt with this very issue in his Informitory Vindication. If on the other hand you are trying to lead me to your conclusion you will have to be more direct or forthright and state your charge.
wounded Christian wrote: ...Matt 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
v.12 of your quote tells us that false prophets shall rise at this time the Lord speaks of. This will cause iniquity to abound. Paul warned the Ephesian elders in Acts that these deceivers would rise up amongst themselves. His advice wasn't start a new denomination.
It might be helpful for all true Christians to think about what we are missing when Scriptural love grows cold.
At least I think I shall put on the OT specks of Exodus 20 and read 1 Cor. 13 and believe Zephaniah 2:3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD's anger.
Psalm 2:1-3 "Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us."
The Lord's response to such governors is the 6th trumpet or spread of Islam in the east in particular see Rev. 9:13-18
The Lord's response to an apostate Church is the 6th vial Rev.16:12-16 this corresponds with Rev. 14:15-20. I have gleaned this from my historical pastor/teachers during a more settled state of the Church. When this judgment has accomplished the Divine purpose judgment will then turn West for last woe trumpet and vial.
Rev.10-11 defines the object of the 7th woe trumpet and Rev. 10:6 in the original language states the time will not be yet for what was uttered by the seven thunders that John was not to write. The end of time as we presently know it will be proceeded by great judgment not dissimilar to the 6th vial.
jpw wrote: ye gods of the earth, send your neighbor's grandchildren to battle for you, you omniscient ones who can read the minds of the world and know who is "good" and who is "evil" US troop stress at five year high http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4Cd8AlFPhA
Watched the youtube video you suggested and in the same place another related to post Mubarak military courts. What comes to mind is: Psalm 82:1-8 "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. I have said, 'Ye are gods'; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations."
It is hard for any unbiased observer not to think that God is doing just as He has inspired the psalmist to pray and prophecy.
Knew Focus wrote: I mean really; what does Hebrews have to do with Bib Laden, Elvis, or space ships?
Let me ask you a question? What does Elvis or spaceships have to do with Bin Laden? In my frame of reference nothing, but Hebrews 9:27 is clear it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.
Since I know the jpw knows that, he obviously meant something other then what his critic stated. That was my point.
As for the rest of Hebrews I quoted, it was so Christ honoring I couldn't resist the context.
jointpotweed wrote: It wasn't him at all. I heard it was Elvis they killed. Bin Laden is flying a space ship fueled by hash!
I believe jpw is familiar with the book of Hebrews and Heb 9:24-28 in particular "For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the fouundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 'And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment': So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."
San Jose John wrote: I wouldn't say that I'm "glad" that Bin Ladin is dead, so much as I am "relieved"--that a dreaded persecutor of my people has been removed by the hand of God. Rev. 6:10
San Jose John,
I believe that this might be a bit of a stretch of the text you quote from Rev.6:10. You would be needing to apply it to the witnesses mentioned in Rev.11:4-10. Those who were hidden in the temple, during the time of the great apostasy but not these 'v.2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.'
If by 'your people' you mean your fellow Americans you cannot rightly apply this text to your patriotic sentiments. A true patriot will always want what is best for his country, and will acknowledge Jesus Christ as America's Prophet, Priest and King and what is best for the nation and this best and necessary duty to be stated in its Constitution. For America to ever have been considered a 'Christian nation' as such, that would have been necessary. America has been given a bright and shining historical testimony, but she takes little note of it, just like her motherland.
Cezar wrote: Kevin DeYoung, pastor of University Reformed Church "But," he adds in his blog, "God has ordained that he should exercise that right through the power of the state." Romans 13:3 (KJV) For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: They are a terror to Christians, therefore they are not of God, and we are not to follow. We are to follow the Bible even if it breaks the laws of men. Psalms 94:20 (KJV) Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law? Hosea 8:4 (KJV) They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off.
Thank you for your comment. I didn't notice it until today. It is rare that I can read something that doesn't cause me perplexity and subtract from my ability, to sort through it all. This is not a commentary on others posts, it is just that often my knowledge base is unfamiliar with much of what is stated here. Not so with your post, it was helpful to me. Again thanks.
The article states, "But the notion that every sin is the same in God's eyes is a half-truth, he contends. Not every bit of iniquity is equally offensive. Some sins are high-handed."
The first murder was committed by Cain against Abel, and what made it heinous was not even as much the family tie, though that increased it's offense, Cain killed Abel because his sacrifice was more acceptable to God (because commanded by God). God had warned Cain of his envy and anger and it results Gen.4:4-7.
I must ask myself: Why such a diversion? Why do so painfully few concern themselves with all the righteous blood that has been shed? like those in heaven do? Rev. 6: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.