Marty wrote: Michael, I didn't mean education in such a broad sense, but rather that you listen to the lecture by presuppostionalist John W Robbins
Marty Thanks for the post back. AND if I have time I will be happy to listen to his sermon (I am soon, God willing, to start a new job and have much to do to get ready for orientation).
Still knowing my own testimony and how God worked in my life to make Himself real to me Voddie Baucham's explanation of why he chooses to believe the Bible, which in his testimony of having no idea at all of what Christianity was all about, was absolutely essential in Him coming to saving faith in Christ.
Which he talks about in: Why I Choose to Believe the Bible.
Marty IMHO for those of us who are burdened in the area of evangelism there are many areas in our faith we seek to grow up in. For example: Our devotional life Our praying life Spiritual Warfare and Intercession Service and Compassion for others Our knowledge of the Bible, Bible Prophecy and Doctrine (and the living of it out in our lives) and Scriptural Memorization AND so much more
And IMHO I agree with Voddie Baucham that foundational to our apologetics, or witness and gospel preaching if you will is knowing:
Something I so wish all of us would be so well (quote) educated in that it would overflow into the working out our own salvation in fear and trembling DEMONSTRATING it is God Almighty Himself who is indeed at work in us both to will and do according to His good pleasure and purpose.
Neil wrote: You ignored my question, so I'll repeat & rephrase it: How is a deaf & blind person supposed to learn about God when he can't even see the creation which requires functional vision to perceive & appreciate?
Neil Unless God in His sovereignty deprives an individual of all his/her physical senses (hearing, touch, taste, smell) they will still have a preception of the physical world. It may be limited but that along with the conscience God gives us IMHO in the grace of God sufficient to know that a Creator who they are accountable to exists.
Just a brief comment here: A preacher named Chuck Misler has made an observation about Albert Einstein who was not a Christian, that Einstein saw so much wonder in the Universe (the Creation of God) that when it came to preachers they weren't speaking of the real thing when it came to God
In the attitude of despising not prophecying but examining everthing carefully and to hold fast to that which is good - Please do that and hold fast to what is good in: How Great is Our God: with Louie Giglio
In my opinion what this man shares if wonderfully humblying when we think of Yahweh, the Triune Almighty Creator who sent Christ to die for us
Bro. James wrote: I say BULL!!!!! I will not hold my tongue!! I will buy more bullets !! And I will FIGHT BACK!!!
Bro James, I like your fighting spirit So, and it is a huge so, I urge you and plead with you to wage war in the right way, the way that wins and honors God
2 Corinthians 10 1 Now I, Paul, myself am pleading with you by the meekness and gentleness of Christâ€”who in presence am lowly among you, but being absent am bold toward you. 2 But I beg you that when I am present I may not be bold with that confidence by which I intend to be bold against some, who think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.
IMHO today's churches are so ignorant we DESPERATELY NEED to learn and grow up in all we Truly have in Christ BECAUSE this is the Victory that overcome the world, our FAITH!
Maybe NOT said this way, just practised: Anti-bullying "laws" to disarm and pre-punish victims in a vain and worthless attempt to appease evil, hateful and wicked men.
That is just not enough.
And for each and even more so may God be merciful to us and grant the grace to pour out our hearts in prayer and intercession for the judgment that is already here and is increasing until we repent, or die (maybe as a martyr) or Christ raptures His own out of here.
ooooh wrote: Ooooh Michael. You are very close to supporting salvation by works in that statement. You are not harping back to your old RCC days are you?
ooooh Perhaps, just perhaps you don't appreciate Biblical Salvation by Grace alone, through faith alone, in the Lord Jesus Christ alone as much as you might need to. Let me explain.
Grace is NOT opposed to effort, Grace ought to encouragea and motivate one to diligent effort to serve Christ, to work out, NOT for, to work out one's salvation in fear and trembling because in genuine salvation, in genuine saving faith (which God Himself is the author of and gives), it is God Himself who is at work in the child of God both to will and to do according to His good pleasure and purpose,
Grace is opposed to merit.
So ever hear of grace being related to: denying ungodliness and worldly lusts?
Ever notice in 1 Peter how he exhorts the child of God to grid up our loins (that would be so we might go to work) in the same book he speak of what he wrote to us by the Spirit as being the True Grace of God?
If the "preaching" you hear is not encouraging your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as worthy of our trust and obedience something's wrong.
Eswicke wrote: That list is duties of the Church Michael. Those who are ordained of God will have carried out some of these duties but not all, as indeed I have. Duty is not faith. Your post below "truth is testable" puts doubt on truth. Why else would you test it? Why else do you doubt God - to test Him? OR Do you have complete faith in God and what He has written and revealed?
Eswicke Care to elaborate on what you've done? and why you put it over as a 'duty of the church' rather than part of a very real faith in Christ?
As to "testable" maybe the word, "Confirmable" or "Verifiable" might work better for you. My heart is in evangelism and building up the faith of genuine born again believers in the church, in this there is more than sufficient witness of an Almighty Infinitely Intelligent Creator in the Universe that (I am not sure this is the best word) coroborates our faith and witness to the lost (the faith God Himself authors and gives to us through His word and by the work of the Spirit).
So, let me ask you, "Do you have complete faith in God and what He has written and revealed?" or are you learning and growing in your faith like so many of the rest of us? Yes, with the confidence what He has written and reveal is the Truth.
John UK wrote: Is this one of the things you are referring to Michael?- Romans 1:18-20 KJV 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.
Brother John UK You got it. How did you know?
It amazes me as it appears some want us to sever our minds from our faith to the point of even severing four faith from very real supernatural experiences that are of genuine Biblical faith.
For a starter with some, the new birth (genuine regeneration), and very real indwelling, filling, experiencial present day ministry of the Holy Spirit in the life of a child of God.
Eswicke wrote: Do you leave any room for 'faith' in your religion?
Eswicke Why would you want to argue?
Let me ask you some questions, and please understand I have a lot of learning and growing to do in these areas.
Ever cast out devils? Ever pray for the sick and see them healed? Ever pray for a humanly impossible situation and see God intervene and do the impossible? Ever have the Holy Spirit reveal to you something that is going to happen before it does? Ever preach on a street corner and hand out gospel tracts? Witness to a Muslim? If you haven't, why not?
So how much room do you have in your religion for 'faith'?
Neil wrote: I know the Flood occurred because the Bible Tells Me So, not because of fossils in sediment, which prove nothing.
Neil Just a comment. Yes, Indeed we know the flood occured because God Himself tells us so in the Bilbe.
Now we might do well to consider that the Truth is "testable", there will be in that natural world "evidence" that what God has told us is indeed true.
If memory serves me AIG has done a good work pointing to this reality.
Scripture talks about real places, real historic people, events that really happened, specific prophecies God fulfilled literally.
IMHO we ought to guard ourselves from "mysticising" the Bible putting it into the catagory of an invented mythology like books like the Hobbit, from what I hear a fun story adults enjoy, go to see the movie, etc. etc. when The Bible is TRUTH, Almighty God Himself speaking to us in a real world, with real issues and problems, real cities, real enemies and villians AND A SO REAL SALVATION FOR THOSE WHO REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST.
Barry from KY wrote: I have a question, if a person believes in their heart, that Jesus is their Savior and he rose from the dead, and sits on the right hand of God his father, but has questions about creation, is he still saved???
Barry, KY Good Question, Excellent Question and taken the right way will lead a man or woman to thinking Biblically about a lot of important things.
First, if the person you are asking about is genuinely born again of the Holy Spirit, genuinely saved _ What will that look like in an individuals life?
Their life will! NOT Maybe, but will be utterly changed. Will they be instantly perfect and exhaustively knowledgable in all things? Let's not be out of our minds. So what will we see?
IMHO I believe we will see in them God's sovereign work of sanctification, discipline and correction, equipping and conforming them more and more into the image of His Son Jesus Christ _ which includes a growing up into the Truth, into genuine Biblical Doctrine (including a literal 6 days of Creation) and the living it out in ones life.
Will they ever wrestle with Biblical things? IMHO all of us will, for me it was the speed of light, resolved in that God stretched out the heavens (Isa 45:12)
Observer wrote: Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Observe Reminds me of the staggering difference between 'an empty lip service, false conversion experience' misleading many to imagine they have Salvation, because they may have at some time in their past repeated a (quote) sinner's prayer.
in great contrast with:
Those working out their salvation (NOT working for ) working out their salvation in fear and trembling because God Himself is at work IN THEM both to will and to do according to His good pleasure and purpose, because they are indeed born again of the Spirit of God and it shows in that they hear the voice of the Lord Jesus Christ and in love for Him, with great joy, willingly follow Him who died and rose again on their behalf.
and adding this after reading JY's post
We anyone professing to know Jesus Chirst as Lord and Savior the One who died on the Cross, giving His life a sacrifice to save sinners from their sins AND Continually Rebel at actually obeying Him in every part of life, including which church to fellowship with or sever company with is Simply NOT Understandable.
John Yurich USA wrote: Romans 10:9 states only one requirement for salvation. Nowhere in the Bible does it state that Baptism, church membership or fellowshipping is required for salvation.
JY I am posting in response to your comment, NOT that I have any confidence that your, let's use the word prejudice, would allow you to dare listen
BUT for the benefit of those who do love the Lord Jesus Christ and are grieved at any false teaching and misrepresentation of what genuine Salvation is all about.
So listen, there is one preeminent requirement for Salvation.
A sacrifice so completely entirely Holy that it takes all the wrath of God against sin and satisfies divine justice and so changes those who entrust themselves to the sufficiency of this power sacrifice given in the immeasurable love of God that it changes utterly the very hearts of those who believe, to no longer live for themselves but for the Lord Jesus Christ who died and rose again on their behave.
No wonder Scripture tells us, 'if anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ let him be accursed.'
Oh Thank God, for His mercy and mighty grace, otherwise we could be "easy believism" empty lip service in name only "Christians" on our way to hell.
John Yurich USA wrote: If those individuals in Matthew 7 did not worship Jesus as God then they were unbelievers. Anyone who worships Jesus as God is not an unbeliever.
JY You reaally need to teach yourself how to read the Bible accurately in context of what is right there in front of your face and that of anyone else who would pay close attention to what Jesus Christ actually said AND didn't say.
So look at Matthew 7:21-27 for even in the RC Bible the CONTEXT of what Jesus says is clear. NOT that they worshipped Him as God, He is, the 2 ND Person of the Godhead, AND EVEN THOUGH they called Him, 'Lord, Lord', BUT THAT they DID what He told them, or not.
IMHO I betcha didn't hear that in your brother's non-denominational 'sinner's prayer' church, did you (or did you and you somehow ignored that part)?
John Yurich USA wrote: Yes the Holy Bible is my Bible as I believe the Holy Bible is the infallible and inerrant Word of God. Period. I have always believed the Bible to be the infallible and inerrant Word of God. How can you state that I don't believe that?
JY The very same way anyone of us if we are honest would show the Bible is NOT our Bible ....... by refusing to do what it (the very word of God) tells us to.
Starts with love wrote: When you live in a Muslim Country
Starts with love
Jesus told us, "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."
And in another place, "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost? For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Fatherâ€™s, and of the holy angels."
It looks like the hope for one in a Muslim country is in loosing their life at the hand of those who adore the same god as the RCC, for the sake of belonging to Jesus Christ, who is worth more than life itself, and even the life of one's own children.
Foxe's Book of Martyrs which can be found multiple places online is an excellent read of those who were martyred for their faith in Christ, by Jews, Pagans, the Roman Empire, the RCC too, and if memory serves me even for having their own copy of the Bible.
SteveR The RCC, and "certain others" have never really liked the fact that the Book of Revelation has a very real fulfillment and like to discredit it.
BUT here is the "rub?", on one side we have men humbly listening to what God Himself says, with the honest consideration, He knows what He is talking about, means what He says and says what He means
on the other hand we have, let's call them religious scholars, like Augustine, Calvin, the Popes and even to some measure yourself telling us, "the Bible really doesn't mean what it says", "this is what it really means." Kind of like Augustine's famous allegorical interpretation of the parable of the 'Good Samaritan.'
Now I hate to disappoint you SteveR(ome's friend and IMHO evangelist) but in the faith God has given me I have no problem whatsoever thinking this Religion you so love, who cannot even get it right on who God is, CCC 841 has no problem slaughtering genuine believers, Jews and others who refuse to bow to Rome just as the followers of Allah did in service to their god, as after all according to John Paul II Catholics and Muslims do adore the very same god.
SteveR wrote: Thank you for sharing those answers, blessed are those given the eyes & ears to understand that truth
Eyes to see? John the Apostle, in a way similar to Peter who confessed Jesus as the Christ the Son of the living God, was shocked at the revelation God gave to him of the Great Whore of Babylon. Something (quote) saints today seem to be turning a blind eye to.
btw the revelation God Himself gave John of the Great Whore of Babylon in the Book of Revelation was the trutn.
Wow! For 8 Minutes This is Great Exhortation! Wow! I am having difficulty putting into words my appreciation for this brief message that exhorts all of us to turn away from the wonderful things we've made into ugly idols and away from blaming others for the things we suffer, like the Coney Island area of NYC suffered because of Sandy, to turn us wholeheartedly back to God and to praying for the lost, the government, Islamic terrorits, etc. etc. who are so easy to blame and condemn.