John for JESUS wrote: Pennned... I was talking about the actual, physical nation of Israel
BIG John4 I know, I know I am interrupting but I have a reason to ....
Let me ask you a question I am not trying to be funny but to touch on something enormously important for all of us
Do you want to be a martyr?
Now you may have little comprehension in where I am coming from in asking this, so please allow me to explain. The Gospel Plowboys sing a song with a longing of looking upon the face of the One who died to save me by His grace...Do we have this kind of longing?
Would we, or do we long to be so faithful and fruitful in our service to Jesus Christ, that we know the world and the devil want to literally kill us and that would be okay with us if it meant the world knowing Jesus Christ is WORTHY of dying for, and that the worst agonizing death is TOO SMALL A PRICE to belong to Him?
Rapture or not, do we love Jesus so much we long to see Him?
Honestly imho some who believe in the rapture are more interested in escaping pain then in seeing Him and for other the JOY will be in seeing Him, whom they love to serve with everyting that is in them here now.
WE MUST GET BACK TO LOVING GOD AND PUTTING HIM FIRST!!!
(the rest) The group has standards that each member has to adhere to. They must be saved. This is first and foremost. You have to know what you are singing about. They must attend church. They must maintain a neat appearance. Though we strive hard to have great musicianship as well as great three and four part harmonies, it all really comes down to this, good Christian first, good musician second. It is our prayer that we can get ourselves in a position where God can use us to touch others. We desire your prayers as we try our best to fulfill our phrase: "Plowing the ground, planting the seed....that Christ died for you"
Christopher000 wrote: much different than the garage plowboys...ha-ha.
Christopher000 Whoa! I think you might have missed something enormously significant in their Christmas Gathering with the 'garage plowboys' (part of the reason I choose the videos I did)
Our Mission The Gospel Plowboys is a bluegrass gospel group that is taking the approach of being a music ministry to spread the good news of Jesus Christ and His saving grace. It is by His shed blood that we are saved. We are based out of Safe Harbor Baptist Church in Salisbury N.C. Pastor Rick Perry of Safe Harbor is my pastor. He has been involved since the very conception of the group. It was after years of prayer ( right at two to be exact )that the group was formed. We dress in denim bib overalls, white shirts and red ties. These are the colors of Old Glory of course, but it goes further than that. It is in tribute to the 30's that we do this. Bluegrass style music was becoming popular. Our great country had terrible problems, much as it has now! Our country prospered and grew back then. The difference from then and now, we loved God then and was willing to put Him first. That just is not the case now. WE MUST GET BACK TO LOVING GOD AND PUTTING HIM FIRST!!!
Brother Saint John UK Wales If I am remembering correctly you might now have a high enough internet conncetion to allow you to enjoy this song (you might not have heard it, or at least this way in the UK)
John for JESUS wrote: Michael Hranek... You do realize
It is senseless and futile to discuss winning souls with someone more concerned with their favorite interpretations of Bible?
Seems you are doing your best to teach that to me and others here on SermonAudio
I sure wish you would listen...Quit arguing about the Rapture, the "catching away" is in there in the Bible! Repent and go win some souls to genuine saving faith in Christ! And if your are missing this faith in your life seek God until He gives it to you and saves you, then go win someone to Christ
John for JESUS wrote: Can anyone actually come up with a verse that speaks of a "rapture"? My guess is no.
AND you would guess WRONG (Christians who humbly read and study their own Bibles don't have to "guess")
1 Thess 4 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Quit arguing, REPENT and get out there and win souls to the obedience of the faith, unless of course you aren't saved yourself and if you aren't get saved and then go win souls
Waslow wrote: There is only ONE correct interpretation of Scripture. The Reformers recognised it and the true Reformed Church has always known it = Amillennialism. The Disney World idea of a Floating Christian Rapture was spawned by Darby in its current ridiculous form. Liberals and Arminians follow that kind of fiction.
Waslow I am not going to waste time with you over the myth of the Reformed CATHOLIC Church being the one true church, and all the religious garbage they brought along with them such as infant baptism (sprinkling)
If you don't have the sense to tremble in the fear of the LORD that the "this same Jesus" written of in Acts 1 is returning in power and great glory to judge the living and the dead (at any time) and seek to be about your part in the fulfilling of the Great Commission to see people genuinely saved, something quite different then merely getting their name on the roll of their favorite reformed church or denomination, there is really not much anyone can say to you, is there.
Waslow wrote: 3. Prior to 1830, no church taught it in their creed, catechism or statement of faith.
Waslow Please, to the best of my knowledge I've never met you, but I have repeatedly met those forget
The early church (think Apostle Paul as an example) believed in the sudden imminent (it could be any time without warning EVEN ....... ) return, let me repeat that RETURN of the Lord Jesus Christ for His church
So are we going to waste time discussing our favorite interpretation of Scripture to prove we are right and those other people are wrong? or wake up and realize time is short, people are dying and going into hell today (rapture or no rapture) and like the laborers hired in the last hour go out into the harvest fields to bring in all the precious harvest we can, BEFORE the storm of God's holy wrath sweaps the chaff (even the humanly speaking good people you and I have met, and again love and care so much about we don't want them to die and go to hell) into hell forever
SteveR Rapture or no rapture the judgment of God is coming on the Great Harlot and nothing you, Pope Francis 1, the RC Queen of heaven and all the blasphemous rosaries prayed to her will stop it, will it
Whether than fight each other over is the Rapture Bibilical or not (imhi it is!) in light of the upcoming movie "Left Behind" we ought to humbly prayerfully cease the opportunity people's interests or fears regarding the end of the world affords us, and point to the enormous Biblical reality Holy God is going to righteously judge the entire world, the whole human race, every man, woman, boy and girl and terrifyingly punish sin and wonderfully reward righteousness
or we and practise depraved indifference the day of the Lord is hastening towards us and wickedly neglect that today is the day of salvation and preach Christ the very best we can now
John UK wrote: Bro Michael, thank you for responding to my question.
Brother John UK Wales Because this is such a terribly involved and controversial issue, I was only trying to answer you not be exhaustive, and imho I personally hold the conviction each indiviual case should be humbly weighed out as best can possibly be (Something I am not going to try to do here)
And if we are honest in some cases there are single people who have never married, who Biblically are free to marry, that I would not recommend get married, and I trust it is likely everyone posting here knows this to be the case.
Let me conclude (hopefully) my comments on this thread with this. Whether or not someone believes in divorce and remarriage or not, it is my opinion we should becareful to not put a stumbling block in their life or anyone else's either in how we treat (or mistreat) them, and I can't tell you what that is, it is something you and I will need to learn from the Lord and have His Love, wisdom and grace to live out.
May God help all of us, as we live in a thoroughly messed up world, with messed up and hurting people who desperately need the Love and Truth and Mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ in their lives.
John UK wrote: Now Michael my dear friend and brother in Christ, what will you say? Let's take an example of the year 2000 when I very nearly married a Christian lady who had married at 18 and because of boredom had divorced her husband at 21. She had a string of lovers until in her forties, when she was dramatically converted to Jesus Christ. Some local churches would have married us, others would not. Now what would you have advised me to do? At the time, I could not grasp the great issues involved, despite prayer and asking other fellow believers
Brother Saint John UK Wales 2 Chron 7:14
You have asked a touchy question and if I had been back there with the knowledge and growth I have today I would have likely begun with a whole lot more questions such as
Are there children involved? Is her former husband remarried or did he remain single? If he has remained single does he desire reconciliation?
If no reconciliation for her and her former husband then I would take the matter
1. Forgiveness 1a. If anyone is in Christ they are a new creature_her broken sinful past is behind her 2. This is my conviction...the two of you would be free to marry in the Lord 3. You both would need to serious evalutation of all this means FIRST
John UK wrote: I for one would like to obey him rather than men (that is, the ungodly men who would lure me away from righteousness and truth).
Dear Brother Saint John UK Wales I can if I must argue and defend my position/interpretation on divorce and remarriage Which the brief excahnges back and forth, the limited space on these forums, and the multiple voices commenting and asking questions and raising concerns and objects make just about futile
Basically I desire indiviudals to do the best they can in good conscience in their own lives and churches when handling the pertinate passages involved and be merciful to those who honestly just don't see things the same as they do, and not put a stumbling block in the path of another in their love and service of the Lord Jesus Christ
If they or I are wrong, our Father will discipline us for our good that we might share His Holiness, not to establish our self-righteousness and any better than others attitude in the least.
My I remind myself and all of us, our primary calling if you will in God saving us and we loving the Lord Jesus Christ is to the Great Commission! Not to somekind of religious crusade on divorce and remarriage (and yes it is important)
May I ask a question? Are we getting way off tract here? I ask this because if we are not careful we can put such an emphasis on establishing our own (as filthy rags) righteousness that we will forget in Christ, God who is completely and entirely Holy made Him who knew no sin whatsoever to be sin on our behalf that in Him (not in the very best of our sincere good intentions, works and efforts) we might be made the righteousness of God in Him with no condemnation whatsoever and that He might be both just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus Christ.
I certainly hope we do not want to make the grace of God to no effect in our lives, or dishonor the immeasurable sacrifical love God demonstratess toward us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us, as if that is not somehow good enough and what we really need is: Jesus plus no divorce Jesus plus tithing Jesus plus the WCF Jesus plus no fermented wine Jesus plus head covering for women Jesus plus no musical instruments etc
John UK wrote: Bro Michael, thanks for your post but.... I would rather a tearless man tell me the truth, rather than an emotional, loving man giving me bad advice as to who I could marry or not. Of course, if a man is loving and gracious, and also preaches the truth, well, you've got there a good pastor or friend.
John UK I agree I hope you undestand we can kind of get emotional when self appointed DIOTREPHES impose "their intrepretations" upon others
2 Timothy 2:15 tells us to Study (or be diligent) to present ourselves approved to God as workman that need not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of Truth
Divorce, Adultery, Remarriage, and even singleness are not easy black and white, cut and dried issues some would make them out to be, especially when they imho abuse them to self-righteously lord it over others in their faith
So, we need, desperately need God, His grace, mercy, wisdom, compassion, righteousness big time first that we might have the logs out of our own eyes first and then lovingly remove a speck from a brother or sister's eye we love and care about
Much prayer, learning and groaning to do in this "charged issue"
Borland Do you not believe in the Sovereignty of God? Do you not believe in the sufficiency of Scripture?
God gives one faith, have you gotten that, one faith? If you read my post I was NOT encouraging that people exegete the Word of God "for themselves" nor have others impose their "scholoarship" upon them as if it carries the authority of God RATHER to seek God to have Him, He Himself teach them.
Do you not believe in the present day minsitry of the Holy Spirit to teach and guide a child of God into all the Truth? Then maybe you should behave accordingly or get things right in "your theology"
per John UK .. a GOOD TEACHER will always: Expound Scripture! he will explain it force you to look at it think about it in greater depth
tell you that "flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto thee",
Troll Spotter wrote: And who are you to impose your errant tyrannical interpretation on the whole of Christendom?
Troll Spotter Wow! I think I am about to thread on some dangerous ground so let me humbly submit this to your consideration:
Rather than demanding people intrepret the Bible how we tell them to perhaps we could:
Encourage them to read it for themselves in context, encourage them these 66 books written in three languages, on three continents, over about 1500 to 1600 years, by some 40 some authors, men moved by the Holy Spirit are the word of God, and what God says, His testimony, His witness is superior over all the opinions men have about what He says, that He will keep His word and make it good for those who trust Him, and the unbelief of men will never nullify the faithfulness of God to keep His word
AND since God Himself is the author to encourage a personal seeking of God to help and make them understand what He is saying to them, and also what He is not saying
To humbly seek and ask God to help them to do what He tells them
Trusting God will work in the hearts, the lives of those who do, to form in them the righteous faith He Himself honors and rewards, they can live by with great assurance in a true knowing of God
I recently heard a story of an old timey Methodist Church years ago, whose elderly pastor retired
They asked for a hell fire preacher They were sent one
They asked again for a hell fire preacher So their bishop (I think) sent them another one
They asked again for a hell fire preacher And their bishop sent a third
Many years later their bishop visited and talked with them about the matter Wasn't the first one a hell fire preacher He was
Wasn't the second a hell fire precher He was
Was the third a hell fire preacher Oh Yes! He surely was What was different about him? The first two preached hell fire well enough But the third when he preached hell fire, he preached it with tears and we knew he didn't want anybody to go there
Point Yes, God's word does say what it says and coldly laying it upon others to make them do what God says without lifting a little finger to be there in their lives to help them in the hurts and difficulties of life is imho dishonoring to the Character of God...and may lead to a gross misintrepretation and misapplication of living it out as well think Pharisees and Sabbath, and their hatred of Jesus
Proverbs 28 4 Those who forsake the law praise the wicked, But such as keep the law contend with them.
Have we taken to heart the second part of this verse ......... "But such as keep the law contend with them"? Basically I am asking for our humble, in the fear of God, consideration not just with Obama but with other issues and matters within and without the church are we keeping the law of God ourselves? or are we playing church?
Much learning and growing to do, humble repentance, taking the forest of logs out of our own eyes first, Sanctifying Jesus Christ as Lord in every part of our lives, praying and interceeding for the lost, wayward and backslidden...and going to them, confronting them in the love of God that they might be saved and/or restored and if they refuse to be turned away from and still prayed for
So much to learn that we might walk in the obedience of faith that pleases the Lord
Jim Lincoln wrote: Ups I can still support Obama care, in general but be against parts of it.
Isn't that similar to our 'friend' John Yurich who continues to attend RC mass because he is only opposed to the unscriptural parts?
I don't know about you but I think I've a lot of learning and growing to do
Persoanlly I don't know about Rand Paul but imho 'fixing' the abortion issue starts with genuine born again believers from the pew to the pulpit and the pulpit to the pews "getting on their knees" (on their faces might be better) and applying themselves to 2 Chronicles 7:14 and Joel 2 big time