Wayfairer pilgrim wrote: Mike, part of this thought process probably needs to be a mixture of repentant believer and fueled by a holy anger against sin. And since there is time, we need to pray for our leaders, both for wisdom and for the holiness of God too crash apon their shoulders. As citizens of this nation we are still entitled to certain rights too present Christ and provide a christian community that reflects the love of the brotherhood , in spite of hatred of the world. But to get there, we need to grieve for our sin of taking God's kindness so thoughtlessly .
I agree with you there is much the Christain community needs to grieve over about our own selves and repent of, and imho all that will become clearer and clearer the more we seek God and pursue obedience to Him.
Wayfairer pilgrim wrote: Thank you CES , I'll take a listen. Micheal from New York
Wayfairer pilgrim Hey! Persecution, real persecution is something that is pretty much new to all of us in the US and UK.
I am working through a lot of thoughts on the matter. Here are some of them.
One, judgment on the U.S. is a certainty and along with that it seems safe to say persection will be more than real too.
So, we need to rediscover if you will real (not perfunctory) mountain moving , rain stopping, miracle working praying (Elijah) and real soul winning too even if that means martyrdom (thinking Whitefield and/or the underground church with believers like Brother Andrew).
Who is adequate for these things? Only those whose sufficiency is God Himself. So much to learn and grow in.
1517 Judge Roy Moore of the great Southern State of Alabama has taken a bit of a different stand (Please note this as well to sware to defend the Constitution would be to stand against those out to destroy it, even the current resident of the 'Rainbow House' and the SCOTUS too. But still I would have to look long and hard at the actual 'oaths' being used today. You might be right they may have been diliberately changed.
Wayfairer pilgrim wrote: Mikey Wienstein's views maybe vitriolic , but they work within the military apparatus in the United States. I agree with 1517, every true Christian is better off removing their uniform, as my fear will be that after we've been utterly decimated in however battle field this nations troops will be assigned as occupier of our nation. Our nation is babylon and the president iis Nero. The very act of instituting gay marriage was ceasing the competency of the soul of man.
Question: Is it better for those in "office" (either civil or military) to stay and respectfully refuse to obey ungodly (& unconstitutional) orders.
It is also good for Christendom, as the demarcation lines between nominal and real are made more forcibly visible.
John UK Imho here it is like we need a civil war in the church first. We are not going to be strong and about the Lord's will if the enemies of the Cross are embraced into MEMBERSHIP in our congregations. It just will not work (bear fruit) worse it will corrupt Biblical faith and Loyalty to Jesus Christ, like it has already in the Pro-Roman Catholic, Seeker Sensitive/Purpose Drive, Emmergent and Ecumenical (sometimes even interfaith, pro-homosexual and pro-abortions) HATE TO USE THE WORD "churches"
I trust you understand that we do indeed as best we are able to welcome as visitors we do care about (not approve the sins and errors of, nor coddle any different gospel in) and preach The Gospel of Christ to them, even if they hate us and leave enraged against us because we stand unapologetically for the Truth and for genuine Biblical Holiness (2 Cor 6:1-7:1)
Woe! To those who are at ease in Zion
Dolores Yes, I believe that too, we have passed a point of no return and now the only thing to do is Seek God and walk with Him through it and while we do Seek to be used to save as many as possible.
John for JESUS wrote: Michael Hranek... The CBF issue is not a political issue as much as a Christian issue to me.
Me too, it is just I am taking the side of let it be a matter of one's own conscience befor God and love for others, rather than being forced to bow to the personal preferences of others. So if you don't want to display a CBF fine don't, and if the little older lady wants to display one not out of any disrespect for discendents of slaves but as her choice of defying political tryanny fine again (sometimes aka anti-white racism). Hope the two of you can love and respect each others choices.
1517 wrote: Michael, Resting on assurances is not a vice but indicative of faith. But, I do understand your point. There have been incidents or an air with some as coming across as the "frozen chosen" or adhering to the idea of what Alistair Begg described as the "Us four, no more, shut the door" crowd. I guess my prickly Reformed ears perk up when I see blanket statements. Thanks for the clarification.
I like Alistair Begg. I would not include him among those whose spiritual blood has hardened into a concrete of doing nothing
1517 From long years of seeking God, reading His word, having modern day Calvinist inform me of their thinking I have come to the humble observation there is a "deadness" in modern day Calvinism, as opposed to a faith that is alive in the Sovereignty of God.
Maybe you can understand. I don not just perfunctorily pray because it a required religious performance and ritual to observe. Instead I look at God's calling and choosing me, placing me in the time and place He has for His own purpose, and in this being humbled by His promises and instructions of things to pray for and about, with a real assurance in the faith He Himself has given me through His word and the work of His Spirit, His hearing and answering are part of all He desires and has predestined to be.
If anyone wants to know the Almight Sovereign Power of the LIVING GOD to do the Impossible (with men), to fulfill and make good His Promises, you must pray in faith that He is There and that He is a Rewarder of those who diligently seek Him, NOT sitting around on their imagined systematic assurances.
I think it is safe to say some old timey Baptists, Calvinists and Others knew something of this the modern day church doesn't
headsup wrote: If you believe 2 Chronicles is for modern day America, then prove such from Scripture.
2 Tim 3:16,17 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Isn't that good enough for you?
Hint: For the child of God who listens to the voice of the Good Shepherd, believes and acts upon what He, Almighty God Himself says to us, it is wisdom, not some magical figuring everything out.
Hint: For the child of God it is entirely obvious that the wrath of God abides on any nation that has held (suppressed) the truth in unrighteousness, that has turned the truth of God into a lie and worshipped and served the creature, rather than the Creator
So what ought the born again child of God do? I know, I know play church until the rapture comes? That's not it? Self-righteousnly hypocritically sigh and say I guess they're just not the elect and nothing my prayers and labors will do because everything is all predestinated?
How about obey God and weep over the sin of our country and its lukewarm and sleeping churches and pray!
Frank (editting my comment for clarity) I asked him my 2 'is it because? quesitons, because one some people really don't want to obey God and seek to find excuses not to, and because where I live churches have been heavily influence and/or misled by what I call 'modern Calvinism' nothing like that of Spurgeon. He posted what he did, he can reply or not of his choice. BTW these are question we all, myself included ought to guard our own hearts in asking. Am I willing to obey God or just if its to my own convience and liking? Am I being influence away from what God says in Scripture by the interpretations men have come up with to disannul both our faith and our obedience?
Second for the people of God, genuine born again believers, I believe it is safe to say the 'our land' has first to do with our churches and second to do with the countries we are living in as when we are the salt and light God intended us to be we will be an influence for good, an influence that God would be respected/feared etc.
in brief 2 Chron 7:14 applies greatly whether or not it meet the approval of men
headsup wrote: 2 Chronicles 7:13-14 was for the nation Israel and does not apply to America at all. This may help - http://midwestapologetics.org/blog/?p=462
You somehow smarter than God the Holy Spirit who told us, the My People, in the NT that whatever was written afore time was written for our instruction.
Who move Paul to write something or other about all Scripture (could that possibly be both the OT and the NT) as being profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, training (or instruction) in righteousness
Oops! I don't want to be disrespectful to you (are you a Calvinist?) but is your problem two fold:
1 - You don't want to humble yourself and pray and turn from your own wicked ways 2 - To actually obey God in faith means you get to find out if your God is really God (Calvinists sometimes (NOT ALL) hide in a warped view of predestiantionISM from an experiential knowing of the Sovereignty of God, that He is the Living God who hears and anwers prayers and fulfills His Promises, because then their Calvinism would have to change into a real walk with the Lord in a real loving obedience of all things, not just empty talk, talk, talk and excuses not to do anyting - other than promote a dry dead Calvinism)
John for JESUS wrote: The Confederate flag doesn't represent state rights. It represents slavery and racism. Both of which are unamerican.
John4 In our day "the demand" to remove the Conferate Battle Flag stands for enslavement to the dictates of Ungodly or Godless would be tyrants.
Are you blind to that? I have a precious little older lady in my church who is so put off with those throwing their ungodly political weight around she would like to hang a CBF out to simply be in their face.
If she does, and does for this reason I am willing to stand and defend her right to do so (to react in a way of her own choosing against tyranny, and anti-white racism). Would you?
Perhaps you might if you recognize, let me say it this way, the sanctity of one's individual conscience before God.
Now it is not on this thread but what are you going to do or not do regarding the unjust assault on the conscience of Biblical Christians (Christianity) by the pro-homofacist courts, government and human rights genuises (and their pro-abortion allies as well) going on right now in our country?
Christopher000 wrote: What's so fruatrating is the kids being brainwashed and raised to believe that anyone who doesn't accept their potential future or even current behavior, is to be shunned, ignored, and maybe even reported to DSS or law enforcement in the near future.
Christopher000 The issue maybe a whole lot simpler and complicated
People are attempting to make themselves gods, they pass judgment on the True and Living God, who really is God and those who dare to believe in Him and love Him against their dictates
So what is our "apologetic?" First to sanctify God as Lord in our lives, then He, not us, is God and rightfully so.
Then in knowing Him (something men cannot do apart from obedience) and being known by Him (He knows the obedient, those who genuinely belong to Him, whom He can use to do His will) we have Hope, the expectation of His glory, the manifestation of the Invisible God in all His Sovereign Power, rule and blessing
Lisa wrote: Could I chslkenge you to pray Find a Muslim and share your faith The Muslims that i know have been very happy to discuss Jesus and I would suggest that there may be quite a few wrestling with Islam after seeing what a mess the Islamists are making of the world ??? KJV Matthew 5 44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Lisa Wales I like your attitude my sister in Christ
John Yurich USA wrote: And what things do I post that make you state that I am not trusting entirely in Jesus alone for salvation?
Every place you post of your delibrate knowing disobedience to Him
Every place where there is no evidence you have been reading the Bible, hearing His voice and following Him This shows in the life of those who actually know Him, especially seeing what Jesus said in John 8:31,32
Your post repeated show how you trash the word of God, explain it away, find an excuse of your own making to refuse to obey it
BTW Since you are a Catholic look at the real Mary in the Bible (not the rc one) and see her faith .... be it done to me according to thy word
and look at the real Jesus (not the rc one) and since you say you believe in Him (those who do actually have evidence of following Him) look at how many times you have insisted on doing your own will not God's far difference from Jesus Christ who said , 'not My will but Yours be done'
As I said you have nothing that make me think you are a real born again Christian, but so much to make me think you are a wretched fake
John for JESUS wrote: Michael Hranek... 1ti.1.10.KJVA for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Being a "menstealer" is contrary to sound Christian doctrine. Therefore, why would I want to memorialize those who were all about protecting slavery? Even to the point or rebelling against one's own country which God gave them!
Are you really that much against slavery? I ask that because have you ever heard of human trafficing? Right now going on in our time on this earth?
BTW the kind of slavery, stealing people from Africa to make them slaves Biblically cried out for the death penalty (in OT kidnapping was a capital offense)
As respectfully as I can, I really don't care what your feelings about the Confederate Battle Flag are, you are Imho entitled to make your own choices about that matter as others are as well.
I am much more concerned / grieved with the homofacist rainbow flag and the evil behind it
John for JESUS wrote: Michael Hranek... How I wish that were true! I have a lot less faith in the American people than you do.
Please do not missunderstand me. I am NOT talking about faith in the American people, especially not our corrupt ungodly spineless politicans NOR faith in wilfully ignorant world loving "church people" either
Imho God has repeated warned us and we largely haven't listened and mocked, scoffed at and ridiculed those sounding any kind of Biblical warning against sin, an increasingly long list of sin at that
What I am saying is that to go through the times that are here and coming upon us: We need the word of God, repentance and prayer
or people can continue playing church until the flood comes and destroys their houses built on sand