Christopher000 wrote: By the way, thanks to all who commented, provided links to sermons, etc, in that Calvinism/Arminianisn thread recently. The thread was gone for me when I went to comment, but I did copy the names and sermons down beforehand.
Christopher000 The thread is still there online even if it has been dropped off the mobile app
John UK wrote: It can so easily happen, brother Saint Michael. We get some understanding, and immediately want others to have exactly the same. It can be a sidetrack, leading to Bunyan's "Enchanted Ground" via "Bypass Meadow" into "Doubting Castle", where all is gloomy and dark and depressing. Spurgeon's answer was to preach CHRIST, the REAL, LIVING, CHRIST. Not some theological concept, or mathematical formula, but a real Person who loves sinners, died for sinners and rose again, and now receives sinners who come to him in faith. What a Saviour is JESUS!
Brother Saint John UK Wales Let me just stop a moment and praise God! This battle of: In Calvinism there are some very valid things for a born again child of God to know Scripturally and somethings in hyper-Calvinism that would rob a man of God of the faith, love, joy, even saving faith if possible that God has long suffered with me for years to get me to where I can see there is a "real" difference
I think other people wrestle with these things to walk in Truth and do what is right. We do indeed have a cunning malicious enemy and Satan's distortion of Biblical Truth, in this case into hyper-Calvinism to abuse/destory those with real God given faith is a victory worth fighting for to win
revealing wrote: The hardest life possible to live on earth as a human being is the life of faith.
In a sense God doesn't do you any favours electing you and providing you with faith to exist in this evil place called humanity.
His commandment are NOT burdensome His yoke is easy and His load is light
Blessed is the man whose sins are forgiven Thank be to God for His indescriable gift The Gift of God is Eternal Life
And you imagine God has not done us any favors? I cannot imagine what kind of God you've imagined to fit YOUR and I stress YOUR theology, but by your own post it aint the Real One.
Your comment is "Revealing" of one who is indeed showing the intellectual religious sophistication (in your case apparently a a malformed version of Calvinism) of man contributes zero, zip not a thing, to genuine Read Faith in Jesus Christ
Seem like you are strain out somekind of gnat while swallowing whole a whopping camel of something or other
Michael Hranek wrote: Brother Saint John UK Wales Scripture tells us clearly: He (or she) who has the Son has life. So in this brief discussion of True vs False we might come to False Conversions (Commitments/Experiences) where I believe to say any False Conversion will envitably be in "another Jesus"
A brief comment here: Real Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ DOES NOT BEGIN with an allegorical (non-literal) interpretation of the Bible
Because with any fanciful allegory men take license (authority) to themeselves that doesn't belong to them to form for themselves a Jesus conformed to whatever they want or promote Him to be (aka Eisegesis, a kissing cousin to idolary)
Whereas beginning with a literal interpretation of the word of God (literal where literal, figurative where figurative) men and women have a solid foundation in unchanging Truth to the understanding of what God Himself is saying to us in parables, in figures, and even in "allegories" if you will (the literal giving understanding of the figure NEVER the figures and allegories NULLIFYING the literal), and a proper God-fearing Exegesis, which of course is intimately interrelate to the God's revelation of Jesus Christ and the Real Faith we so need in Him alone
John UK wrote: However, don't expect Calvinium Catechists to understand that.
Brother Saint John UK Wales Scripture tells us clearly: He (or she) who has the Son has life.
So in this brief discussion of True vs False we might come to False Conversions (Commitments/Experiences) where I believe to say any False Conversion will envitably be in "another Jesus"
with Mormons the LDS it is their Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer with the Muslims their Jesus is a Muslim prophet NOT the Risen Son of the Living God (who is NOT Allah btw) with the RCC their Jesus is a lifeless piece of bread the baby Jesus who has to do what his mama Mary-Queen of Heaven Comediatrix of all Graces tells Him to do
I believe you and I are in agreement CH Spurgeon had a true conversion to the real Jesus Christ, in the obedience of faith he looked to Him alone to save him from his sins, testified of it, and spoke much of the Savior, his preaching is rich and deep with Jesus Christ, whom I believe he served to the best of his understanding
But sadly I know personally a pastor who had a "Revelation of Calvinism" (said so) and it changed him (imho badly) his mission became one of converting others to Calvinism or "excommunicating" them if they didn't
John UK wrote: it reminds me of one of my favourite Bible verses: Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV (13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. The "earnest" of the Spirit is a guarantee of our inheritance with all the saints. He is like a down payment, and all the rest of the blessings in Christ will be sure to follow, as God never changes his mind. Praise the Lord!
Saint John Wales To continue my thought:
Real Faith reads the Bible as a revelation of Jesus Christ and yes more than that too But essentially as a revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ to us the Doctrine of Christ Eph 3:16,17 comes to mind here
False faith reads the Bible as a revelation of some kind of "Calvinism" (or something else)
Real faith by the grace of God with God's own revelation of His Son puts ones faith in the Son of God
False faith with a (different) revelation of (hyper) Calvinism, or some other ism puts their faith in their ism
John UK wrote: Yes I think we can say that is biblical, St Michael. Some look to these things, some even look to their faith, others look to goosebumps: but we will continue to look to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Saint John Wales What we are discussing regarding true faith vs false faith strikes at the heart of what it means to be a Christian (genuine)
For anyone who by the grace of God places their faith in Jesus Christ, they have (even if it may take much learning and growing up into) assurance of righteousnes, eternal life, no condemnation ... ultimately the JOY of God's salvation and therefore love to worship and follow our Savior, the Holy Spirit experientially bearing witness with their spirits they are indeed a child of God
For those influenced deceived with false faith they have put themselves into a horrible devilish bondage for sophisticated, intellectual and pious religiously THINGS maybe like: infant sprinklings, creeds, confessions, pretty flowers can never give anyone assurance they are one of the elect no matter how zealously they claim to be and therefore strike out against those whose "sacrifice of (real) faith" is acceptable because their's, like Cain's is ultimately rejected by the God they claim to give all glory to
revealing wrote: How do you tell the difference between true faith and false faith?
Brother Saints John and Mike Can we say true faith is in the Lord Jesus Christ I am of course speaking of the One whom God Himself speake of in the Bible, Who He reveals and identifies in Scripture and testifies is the real One by His Spirit
and false faith is in something else ... maybe like John Calvin & Augustine, TULIP, Dhordt, the WCF or even infant sprinkling
further can we say Satan seeks to destroy or punish true faith and deceive people into false faith ... with the Pharisees it was in man made traditions and doctrines of men (as an example what they did with the Sabbath and circumcision and today excuses to abuse, malign, and certainly not genuinely love others)
SteveR wrote: I find naming a Baptist Church in Downers Grove 'Marquette Manor Baptist Church' very very funny. Since you are a few milliliters short of a baptism, I will fill you in on the punch line. Jacques Marquette was the famous French Explorer that not only founded many settlements in the Midwest, but he was a dedicated militant Jesuit missionary
SteveR Your problem is not with dumb baptists but between yourself and God
Hint: We baptist-types could be potentially the worst of sinners and you could do your best to ridicule us etc etc and all that would not make you right with God and btw for all of us who are genuinely born again of the Holy Spirit, not just born again Baptists, the Lord Jesus Christ is our righteousness
And Jesuits would still be in desperate need of repentance and the ecumenically deceived and decievers too
SteveR wrote: We interrupt these rantings to bring you a special message from Troll HQ.
SteveR In the face of reality Jesuits, the RCC, and eumenical pro-Catholic "protestant/reformed" trolls really are not funny, more so like lying devils, accusers of the brethern, a very wicked blasphemous idolatrous bunch that seek to sabotage genuine born again believers and shut up the kingdom of God from those who would enter in
you really need to stop deceiving yourself and to come out from among them and be separate, genuinely holy unto God, unto the Lord Jesus Christ
Hint: genuine believers/disciples, even with all our poverty, weirdnesses and weaknesses though they be a very small remnent are much better company to be with
How to read the Bible wrote: Poor Michael. Still in conflict with
I know, I know zealous one eyed hyper-Calvinists who act like they have somekind of special gnostic knowledge and therefore they and they alone speak for God (kind of reminds me of the Popes of the RCC)
Thanks for the reminder
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold (suppress) the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools .... Romans 1:18-22 kjv
There is of course more, but then oh my you might actually have to be willing to humble yourself and listen, and think honestly
btw to be honest with you: the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness
Dorcas wrote: Michael, I listen to sermons that preach the sovereign grace of God, and those that preach the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ and exhort sinners to come to Him.
Dorcas There may be a wonderful beauty beyond what you intended when you posted this.
I believe I listen to the very same type of preaching too! And I can name the preachers (at least some of them): CH Spurgeon JD Hatfield of course Paul Washer David Platt Paris Reidhead Sean Harris Marc Monte Dave Hunt Brian Borgman Jim Berg Ian Paisley Leonard Ravenhill (sometimes not too often) Eric Ludy Robert Rubino Jeff Durbin RC Sproul JR (much more so than SR) Dr David Gibbs and the list goes on and on from people of different backgrounds and emphasis in their faith
Here is a verse touching on what I am talking about:
Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. Malachi 3:16 kjv
Perhaps it was a bit like this or in other words related to how CH Spurgeon and DL Moody treated each other
Dorcas wrote: Lewis Kiger 5 Stones to Slay Arminianism 1026111020135 10-23-11
Dear Dorcas No, I haven't listened to this sermon as yet. That is not what I am posting about However I did want to post that I had found on Pastor Kiger's Church's website:
They wrote: We believe regeneration and conversion to be a simultaneous occurrence as a result of the Holy Spirit using the spoken or written word. (II Ths. 2:13,14) (Heb. 4:2) (I Cor. 1:21) Question: Did you know this was on their website?
That is enormously different than saying regeneration occurs prior and independently of a God wrought repentance and faith to save the lost. So despite whatever difference he and I might have, in this he is NOT the kind of (one eyed hyper-)Calvinist I am speaking of
James Thomas wrote: 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV) 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
James Thomas Thank you for posting. There is for sure a difference in receiving the things of the Spirit of God such as: What it is to be saved from sin in the new birth, being filled with the Holy Spirit and knowing His present day ministry in the life of the child of God, and certainly interecssory prayer that God Himself initiates, and burdens His servants to labor and presever in, and let me repeat and emphaize a great difference in the genuine things of the Spirit of God (different from sinners knowing God is real, sin is wrong)
But especially a great difference that imagines the things of "(hyper) Calvinism", a Reformed Gnosticism (special knowledg those unenlighted in Calvinism don't have) are the things of the Spirit of God, and who tickle there own ears with the fantasy that since they embrace "The TULIP" they are one of the elect and carrying it to its extreme they are justified in hating and condemning non-Calvinists as heretics
CH Spurgeon, David Platt. Paul Washer, etc. are not that kind of Calvinist
John UK wrote: When the scripture is taken as a whole, with all relevant texts observed and received, it becomes impossible to allow for a new birth as the first action by God in our conversion.
Brother Saint John UK Wales I so appreciate both what you and our brother saint US in Georgia have been posting
Allow me to give a brief observation here: If one wrongly puts new birth (regeneration/salvation) arbitarily before and independent of a work wrought in the Sovereignty of God to personally bring lost sinners to conversion (many may word this better than I can) they essentially rob/strip/nullify/make of no reall effect that Jesus is The Messiah, that He is mighty to save the worst of sinners and the whosoevers who call upon His name, who cry out to Him to save them from their sins. Because in a 'one eyed hyper Calvinistic fantasy of religous make believe' prostyles do not really need One to save them from their sins and of love sin, all they need is to be one of the predestinated elect _ therefore no need to pray for lost sinners, no need to preach Christ to them, no need to reason and plead with them of their desperate state before the all Holy God, if they are one of the elect all that is unnecessary
ladybug wrote: Michael, I'm not surprised you disagree.
Certainly you don't mean to say the new birth comes after confessing and believing?!?
Ladybug Thank you for replying I would encourage you to examine honestly, humbly and prayerfully what John UK and US have posted
Now as I have alread posted I am preparing "a more lengthly , reasoned and detailed reply" so please do suffer lone with me as anything I might post will only briefly touch on this deep and far reaching matter
No! As politely and repectfully as possible, I certainly do not believe the religious fantasy (myth) men, or women are born again and saved (regenerated and given eternal life) before and independent of the Personal Sovereign work of God to bring about repentance and faith in the lives of those God choses to save.
Hint: Please don't let this offend you but you are wrong that "the natural man understands NOTHING concerning spiritual matters" and an honest open humble reading of what God Himself says in the first chapter of Romans would tell you this. In simple words sinners know God is real that sin is evil and wrong etc BUT THEY SUPPRESS THIS KNOWLEDGE and Knowingly Reject God
So why do some Calvinists suppress this heartbreaking reality (truth)?
ladybug wrote: Those that have been born again will indeed respond, never would someone who's been quickened by God refuse to believe and confess. So, it isn't a choice at all.
Dear Ladybug As respectfully as I might and this has to be brief, I disagree on Scriptural grounds with your premise
I will indeed prepare a more lengthly , reasoned and detailed reply but in wording things the way you do you have essentially destroyed, or removed any PROMISE in regards to the Gospel
As you cannot tell a born again individual (who already has eternal life in the new birth) to repent and call upon the name of the Lord to be saved
Nor can you with "your premise" PROMISE a lost person, "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved" btw God can and does make such a PROMISE and His promise to the lost one is indeed very real and certain. Praise God!
Further with "your premise" election/predestination essentially supersede the importance of personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and the work of the Cross in the Salvation of the lost
Christopher000 My response will take a bit of time and I will let you know when I have it
Dolores wrote: If I may, can I just give you a thumbs up on your sermon ( wish I knew how to do the thumbs up) It settled in my mind that God is happy with me, He filled me with His Spirit, which gave me power to be His witness, overcome sin in my life, live my life pleasing to Him. So, Amen to your sermon!!
Thank you, Dolores, for your kind encouragement, and testimony of His work in your life
John UK wrote: Saint Michael Whatever happens, we must never forget that we begin in faith, we must continue in faith, till our dying day. The salvation and life in Christ Jesus is always by grace, never by effort.
Saint John UK Wales May God bless you in this last market now till Easter.
Brother, please don't ever let anyone from the camp of 'one eyed Calvinism' tell you your efforts don't matter in your seeking after God (Hint: His Very Being ought to motivate us to a most thorough, diligent, humble and holy seeking the face of God)
And when they could not come near Him because of the crowd, they uncovered the roof where He was. Mark 2:4
Because our God is immeasurably great We ought to expect great things of Him Because Jesus Christ is so worth of it We ought to pursue great things for Him
John UK wrote: Saint Michael, if he will not listen to scriptures
The first requirement is to believe that the Bible is the word of God. Without this - nothing.
Maybe he is become bewitched.
Brohter Saint John UK Wales If I my allow me to do a little preaching in the brief space of a simple post.
Imho opinion if we really come to know our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as the early church experiencially knew Him (and I believe we can and ought to pray for this, MUCH!), built on Him, the ROCK which the gates of hell cannot prevail against, His word richly dwelling within us, and the Spirit of God filling us, we will have in Him given to us by God Himself personally FAITH that moves mountains, sees the impossible only God Almighty Himself can do done _ we will be on fire for Him!
We will walk away, far away form the excuses, the prayerlessness, the powerlessness, the barren, fruitless cold heartedness, the timidity and cowardice that infects modern day sophisticated theologies with a bewitching form of godliness that denies the power of God
Let's remember: Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect?