Ahem wrote: What are you doing on a Christian forum Ahab? Should you not spend your time with Jezebel and the prophets of Baal, your kindred spirits?
Ahem Forgive me in advance as it is whole lot easier to look on an issue from the sidelines and see things those in the midst of it might be far too close and personally involved to notice
and please understand I am also posting because I have the same kind of issues to learn and grow in myself
So let's not forget Romans 8:28 as God's sovereignty covers 'all things' even all trolls
So with that in mind, let's ask God why He premits this 'unpleasant individual' to be posting here.
What does He want us to learn in this? How does He want to change us for the better? And since Jesus told us to pray ... deliver us from the evil one, how does this apply or not to our praying?
Not to have any sympathy for Jezebel nor the prophets of Baal but still if we are really seeing their end hastening towards them, shouldn't that change our reaction, maybe even our compassion to them, knowing their end will not be good, maybe put a trembling fear of the LORD in us as well and a refreshed deep desire to see the lost save
I don't begin to have all the answers but I want to learn
Michael Hranek wrote: Christopher000 Thanks for posting back Please understand I was not saying these Lutherans were doing exactly what the RCs do, but for me it is way too close for comfort
Christopher000 John UK Frank and others with interest reading along
Is it safe for us to think and say: The Holy Spirit will NEVER lead a child of God to make, bow down to let alone worship an idol, without seriously grieving Him, and provoking God to a enoromously needed corrective discipline in any of His children so backslidden? (others may word this differently)
Ultimately I believe this is the case, although Satan is a maserful deceiver, who would seek to prey upon the weak and ignorant, the HOLY SPIRIT isn't, and again I have to think there is a HOLY Jealousy with God that He does not abandon a single child who belongs to Him to the devil (after all the devil is still God's devil and he cannot pluck anyone out of the Father's hand)
Back to my rambling: Idolatry is serious sinful business and I trust humility and the fear of the LORD will serve us well in being teachable to what is the Truth in the matters of Trans or Con substantialtion, personally I believe bread and wine are represenative of Christ, we receive Him in/by faith alone
Christopher000 wrote: Ok, thanks Michael. I didn't think it was a big deal, but if they also worship the wafer and wine, then that's a game changer, I guess. I did some research and they just seem so close in their doctrines. I know Luther carried some errors with him but didn't know there were fatal errors, but then again, I never really looked into it until now. Hope all is well. Thanks for always taking the time to comment.
Christopher000 Thanks for posting back Please understand I was not saying these Lutherans were doing exactly what the RCs do, but for me it is way too close for comfort
and this is heartbreaking to me because in their statement of what Evangelical Lutherns Believe, Teach and Confess they start out very well, especially to me, in my words here, God revealing Himself to mankind and making Himself knowable
but when it comes to salvation, to being born again, that is in repentance (which He brings about) and faith (which He gives) not in anykind of 'human activity', like baptism and taking the Lord's supper _ we receive Him by faith, by faith alone, not faith mixed into rituals and ceremonies
Christopher000 wrote: I'm not sure what the difference is between Lutherans and born again Christians. I know they believe in grace alone through faith alone, sprinkling, and that the communion is actual body and blood, but is there anything that really seperates us doctrinally?
Believing that communion is actual body and blood separates us doctrinally
I can explain this better in pointing to RC Communion where RCs teach thier priests have the power to turn a lifeless piece of bread into the real presence of Jesus Christ so that Catholics can physicaly eat Christ and have Him alive in them until their communion waffer dissolves, and therefore obedience/observant RCs are commanded to worship their waffer as if it is Jesus Christ Himself physically present
If He isn't physically present in their waffer than what RCs do is blasphemous idolatry a sin of those who hate God
Bible Believing Christians must not learn from those in error how they imagine they are worshipping God and adapt it to fit into their litergy and beliefs
Editting John, do you mind expaining "TUPPIP" at the moment I do not remember what it is Thanks
John UK wrote: I don't know what evangelical Lutheranism stands for, but it may be better than Orthodoxism. Time will tell, obviously.
Brother John I looked up what Evangelical Lutherian's Believe, Teach and Confess it was sounding very good and then they lost me on baptism and the Lord's table (I would have to part company with on those and perhaps more further along)
Dopey wrote: Michael, I notice that you say,"John UK, Christopher000, Dolores" while I say, "John UK, Christopher000, Jim Lincoln from Nebraska, Dolores" Did you ever read this Michael when reading your Bible?: He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.--Proverbs 18:13 KJV What is your next nonsensical statement Michael? That I deliberately held something back so that I could trap you?
Dear Dopey Playing word games with yourself won't get you anywhere
Behave like a child of God and you just might be treated like one Continue to behave like "a divisive little troll and not a brother" who has worn out his welcome and don't be surprised and get angry that you get the replies you do
Hint: And don't expect others to join in with you in condemning and fault finding those who are behaving like brothers and sisters in the Lord, standing up for the Truth _ well maybe a 'fellow troll' (I hate to use the word, it is so close to calling people "swine", maybe wolves in sheeps clothing is better) would jump at the chance to join you in fault finding and accusing the brethern
Dopey wrote: ...all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.--Revelation 21:8 (KJV) John UK, Christopher000, Dolores do you each judge that I am "a divisive little troll and not a brother"? Yes or No will be sufficient to answer. And if one or more of you answer No, then Ahem you are in fact a liar and should pay close attention to God's warning to you in Revelation 21:8 and you should then ask the Lord Jesus Christ to save you from that fate.
How unkind If you behave like "a divisive little troll and not a brother" we would be unkind to you to pat you on the back and wink, wink that you are just a silly nit with problems
Instead the loving thing imho and I trust of others too to tell you
"You claim to be a Christian, but you aren't behaving that way, so please do for your own sake make your calling and election sure, bear fruits worth of one who has repented of his sins and put his faith and alligiance in the Lord Jesus Christ"
btw continue on in the path your going if that is your choice but if you do know well it is NOT one we can give you the least assurance of any righteousness or approval before Holy God in.
SteveR wrote: Easy thing to say when your people arent being ethically clensed from their land.
What a subtle damnable, deadly, hateful and appeasing lie to call it "their land". It is like giving the Islamic-facists a hunting license to kill Jewish people, even if they are old men, women and children
The Land belongs to Israel, the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Only True and Living God gave it to them.
Josh M wrote: Agreed but this comes from the means of grace.
J.D. Hatfield here on SermonAudio in one of his sermons made a statement that has been so helpful to me, in my words it goes:
Grace is not opposed to works (effort like seeking God), grace ought to motivate and give us confidence to work, labor, seek God in faith, grace is opposed to merit
That last part 'grace is opposed to merit' tells it as it is, it is only because of His grace our that "effort" (which come out of the conviction of His mercy, grace, faithfulness to keep His word, make good His promises) would see His goodness in the land of the living.
BTW missunderstandings happen thank God for His forgivenness in His grace for both of us
Josh M wrote: all over the place with the issue of the apostolic gifts.
Josh M Insufficient time to write more 1. I am not arguing for the apostolic gifts 2. I am say we need and ought to seek God for the Power of the Holy Spirit, in our lives, service, witness, praying
btw the pastor did not pray, my friend, her family and friends did _ afterwards when he was visiting her home and she told him what had happened, it was then he cussed her out, essentially for what God did in answer to prayer
Michael Hranek wrote: Does God want our faith to rest in the wisdom of men, even in the wisdom of sincere scholarly relgious men, or stand in the Power of God?
Josh There was a difference if you are willing to note it.
You offer a link to an article by a sincere scholarly religious individual, and there is no problem in that. We are not to despise prophecying (preaching) but to examine everything carefully and hold fast to that which is good
And yet, Paul writing by the Holy Spirit, Paul who had imho scholarship that surpassed the best of any modern day scholars, Paul who knew both the Gospel, and the Power of God, is insistant that our faith stand not in the wisdom of men but in the Power of God
There is something important for us to learn in this that seems so lacking (or counterfeited) in today's churches
So why did you get so upset? Do you somehow begrudge that someone would desire to preach the Gospel in the Power of the Holy Spirit? Do real genuine wrought in the Sovereignty of God miracles in answers to the prayers of His people make you uncomfortable? Are they embarressing to you?
I know of a pastor who cussed out a Baptist friend in TN after God miraculously restored her deathly ill son to health in answer to prayer
runethegoon wrote: The Lord is raising up Islam and isis for His purpose. He's raised up nations more wicked to rain down judgment on the church in the past. We in our churches have not been obedient to his holy commandments. The churches run after the doctrine and the commandments of men. We permit adultery murder and open idolitry even with in the house of God. God can change the heart of any magistrate to repell any forces including islam. Many Christians and churches in the middle east prefer to have America butt out of their country. Sadam Hussien had bibles in his schools. What about Barrack Hussein Obama? At the time of the Asseyrian captivity and Babalonian captivity. The Lord told them to go.
Runethegoon TX Very valid observations/considerations
Which if I may gets us back to "a growing fascination with the occult" because (this is my humble observation) we have so little of the Power of God in our churches and in our praying because men have made themselves confortable and self-righteous in a form of godliness, that denies the power of God
lip service to His power for sure believing His power is real today and seeking for it to see His will (not ours, His) done ... well maybe when it is convient for us or suits our flesh
Michael Hranek wrote: BTW since we are talking about spiritual warfare I am planning on attending a local public (not church) meeting this evening with a man speaking on ISIS. From what I hear it is likely there will be Muslim 'visitors' and it could get interesting _ So if you don't mind please be in prayer as the Spirit leads you _ Thanks Much (corrected spelling)
To everyone who prayed Thank you so much Just got home.
I appreciate being covered with prayer even though things didn't go as expected
I think since the discussion was changed from Shariah Law in America to ISIS, the local Muslims didn't bother to show up especially with the long winded unbelieving thoroughly secular minded Jewish man who (I don't mean to be unkind) about bored us all to death for better than an hour and a half before even touching on what he was supposed to be talking about
Boiling down his points Americans fail to understand the nature of the real threat Islam is and because of this we are loosing
Our tolerance/appeasement of Islam is destroying us because we fail to face up to the reality they do not want peace but to convert, conquer and kill us
Still a good learning experience I trust God it will help me in talking with non Christians
GSTexas wrote: John UK writes: Are we playing church or fighting a mighty war? Our need of revival shows it is the former. What think ye? Have you heard of a book called "The Christian In Complete Armour" by William Gurnall? Ive only read a little of it, as it is very long, but what Ive read is very good. If you have not heard of it, I think you would like it a lot. Your last comment reminded me of it.
In Good Read's first comment begins with things like:
"This book should come with a notice on the flyleaf--WARNING: Reading this book may cause crises of repentance."
"I remember reading it and thinking, "My pastor has to read this!"
I will be looking forward to reading it soon Thanks Again!
BTW since we are talking about spiritual warfare I am planning on attending a local public (not church) meeting this evening with a man speaking on ISIS. From what I hear it is likely there will be Muslim 'visitors' and it could get interesting _ So if you don't mind please be in prayer as the Spirit leads you _ Thans Much
Dopey wrote: "I know you like to glory in putting people down,"
Dopey Excuse me but didn't both you and SteveR more than wear out your welcomes here on SermonAudio?
May I humbly suggest that the two of you, and I think I will throw myself into the mix for good measure do some serious soul searching, as the Truth of what God Himself say is far more important than all our opinions of what He says put together
And btw whether GSTexas, myself or anyone else who chooses to, are well withing our rights as a child of God to expose and oppose the heartbreaking things about the RCC that are amiss and which even terribly hurt and wound sincere precious Catholic people and hinder them from knowing the reality of Salvation in the sufficiency of the completed work of Jesus Christ _ Your friend SteveR is famous as being a Roman Catholic Apologest or promoter however one wants to describe it.
Something I contend no one would do who knows and Loves the Truth of being a genuine Biblical born again of the Spirit Christian (NOT just a Sunday Morning pew warmer...if that) and loves Catholic people enough to tell them the Truth of Christ and Salvation that they might truly be saved