Michael Hranek wrote: Apparently God thinks men can choose and commands them to Deut 30:19
Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.
Who was God speaking to?
Deu 4:4 But ye that did cleave unto the LORD your God are alive every one of you this day.
Certainly not the Egyptian unbelievers who perished in the Red sea or even unbelieving Israel who perished in the wilderness save Joshua, Caleb and the 2nd generation born in the wilderness.
How can we say we love and honor God in one breath then take His testimony out of context, turn it upside down in objection to a doctrine, in the next breath?
Was Paul able to accept or reject Christ's calling on Damascus Road? Did he not say his calling was a pattern for all who would be called to eternal life thereafter (1 Tim 1:16). If so, even if you can find something in defense of your belief system in the OT it doesn't matter.... its irrelevant because Paul was the first to be called after God confined all (Jew and Gentile alike) in unbelief so He may have mercy on who He has mercy. Its that simple.
Bob S. wrote: Jesus mentioned hell/fire/destruction in his ministry far more than love or heaven, for how can anyone believe they need Christ to save them if they do not know what they are to be saved from?
Good point. So how do you apply this to a 3 year old or an aborted fetus?
I checked all the texts you posted and yes, I've seen them given in defense of your position many times. But I trust we all profess there are no contradictions in the bible.... just faulty interpretations. So consider.....
Deut 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
Why would God even make such a statement if all were guilty of Adam's actual sin from conception? According to your view, all were guilty and should have been put to death.
In order for this statement from God to be true, your interpretation of the verses you cited must be faulty.
Bob S wrote: @frank--If humans are not accountable to God until a certain age then the most loving thing we could do would be to kill them quickly to assure they would be with The Lord forever rather than allowing the potential to face eternal suffering. No, the Scriptures are clear, and there is no mistake about it that humans are wholly corrupt against God from the moment of their existence. You are not protecting God's image by denying that, for he is not unjust by sending rebellious sinners to hell, instead you are making provisions for the flesh of fallen mankind. Please please do not make justifications on scripture to fit God in your box, but rather fit your perspective of the world into the box The Lord has clearly outlined via Scripture.
I happen to agree with Frank but if you would be so kind as to show us these clear scriptures you mentioned which sends a 3 year old to eternal damnation, I'd sure be willing to consider them. Frank will speak for himself if he so chooses.
pennned wrote: and I would ask those who honorably served in the past, do you see any from the present speaking? might you consider why they cannot? 10-20 years of silence, brethren. the generations need to hear each other out and it hasn't happened. and with a perpetual state, it will not be easy. the world has changed, it is not as it was. I remember hearing the stories of vets being treated terribly upon return from VN, and this many being drafted. the rich and the liberals would leave the country to avoid it. I would ask those reading this to consider the number one cause of death among active duty mil today, to find out who they were giving their support to in the elections and why. the cultural gap between the baby boomers, generation x, and the millenials is huge, we need the wisdom of our elders and the realities of the younger, not to eat each other up or to remain isolated in pride! Lord help us!
Thank you for your heartfelt comments, Penny.
Suicide is a huge problem for the DOD in recent years.
Much blood and treasury went into Iraq and to see it flickered away by an inept administration is heart wrenching, especially for those who served there and the families of those who came home in a box........
Jim Lincoln wrote: I'm insane, Chris? Now, admittedly beating on a dead horse is tiresome, when talking to John Y., e.g.,
"We define apostasy as a kind of total departure from the Christian truth. âWell,â says someone, âare you saying that about the Roman Catholic Church?â We have to be most careful here. If we say that Roman Catholicism is apostasy we must be clear as to the sense in which that is true. Let me put it like this therefore. Here it is not so much a matter of âdenialâ of the truth, but rather such an addition to the truth that eventually it becomes a departure from it."
Jim, I'd have to disagree with Lloyd-Jones's quote as apostasy implies the apostate once held the truth. I can't think of a time in the history of the RCC when it ever knew the truth. Dead from its inception.
SteveR wrote: Lurker You must have Vietnam Vet Baby Killer insecurity syndrome. I never said I look down on our Armed Forces with disdain. I said I look down on your 'friendly fire' murder jest of people like Yoder with disdain. btw- Those that render unto Caesar dont have innocent blood on their hands, those that repent of their duties are forgiven, but those that glorify in killing & demand thanks for their wickedness do
I spoke up in this thread for 2 reasons.... 1 to let Jim know he was not alone as a veteran and 2 to identify Yoder as the thankless parasite he is.
Everything else you've managed to conjure up in your mind are just the normal out workings of an overactive imagination. Pity, that.
Innocent bystander wrote: Maybe it is you who should leave the country! You want tyranny and mandatory compliance to man, then there are other places you can live. Let God's people live in peace. We want freedom, so if you hate true freedom, then get the hell out!
And when ISIS comes knocking on your door demanding you convert to Islam and bow down to them or they'll chop your family's heads off in front of your eyes.... you'll do what?
SteveR wrote: I never saw the post. But if he asked whether the military engaged in the murder of the innocent, you just answered his question soldier.
Cover your eyes and ears and stick your thumb in your mouth if you choose; but if you've ever paid federal income tax, you share as much culpability of what you perceive as wrong and evil with the armed forces as the men and women who actually risk their lives to preserve your right to look down on them with disdain.
Just an observation wrote: Yoder, disgruntled that that post had been removed, referred to his copyright in that post. A person not so long ago made the same protestation before he either stopped posting or was banned viz. Dopey. I have my suspicion that he is Dopey. It's the sort of stupid comment he would make.
I didn't see that post but it wouldn't surprise me. Its probably a good thing he didn't serve in the military for I suspect "friendly fire" would have gotten him.
Unprofitable Servant wrote: Jim, I believe the question Mike and pennnnnnnned were asking is how would you know that there are surprising few vets on SA. Maybe it would be good, if they wish, for the vets to speak out and let Jim know they are here.
13 year army vet.
Yoder's question was on the order of how many people did Jim kill while in the military. Disgusting. I have no time for thankless parasites like Yoder who take advantage of all the rights and freedom this country offers yet despise the patriots and military which serves to preserve those rights and freedom.
If you don't like the fact that freedom isn't free.... get out of my country.
Frank wrote: Well, your comment and MS's agreement certainly sounds inclusive. Exactly what did I say that didn't bring glory to my heavenly Father? I posted the following comments and would benefit from any sharpening that you want to do. 10/31/14 10:25 AM, 10/31/14 12:21 PM, 10/31/14 5:09 PM, 11/5/14 12:01 PM, 11/4/14 1:00 PM
Sorry Frank, I was near tears when I wrote that comment, having read the toxic abuse and personal attacks amongst Christian brothers which happened during the day. My comment wasn't meant to include your posts.
But now that sadness has turned to anger over the nonchalant attitudes about what has happened which tells me something is seriously amiss. I need to consider whether there is a place for me here any longer.
Christopher000 wrote: Sorry for the quick off topic, but...Lurker, who was the forum member that we were talking about once and mentioning a laptop? She was really down and out...Has she been back around?
Her moniker was Mourner. As far as I know she has not been back.
MG wrote: In fact, in chapter 2, he even talks about the gospel bringing death! Hebrews is all about the priesthood and sacrifices.
2 Cor 2:15-16 For *we* are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
MG, I know you strive to please God so I hope you take this as constructive. The gospel does not bring about death.
The key to understanding this text is in determining who *we* is. Paul always had a traveling companion who served as a Levite while he preached the gospel. Paul didn't baptize but his companion did.
Baptism, on the order of John Baptist's, also a Levite, put the flesh to death so the soul lives by the faith of Christ. This is what Paul meant when he said "I have planted, *Apollos watered*; but God gave the increase." For those who didn't believe the gospel.... they were confirmed in their death, both body and soul, by baptism. For those who think baptism is just a matter of running some tap water and sprinkling or immersing... you won't get it.
Re: The law and the NC. God promised to write His laws on hearts of flesh. How did/does He fulfill the promise?
Thank you so much for sharing what God has done for you and your family. It never ceases to humble me when I hear of how God has guided His people and blessed them with what is most important in this life..... a loving family which loves God above all else. Praise the Lord.
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I read all your posts. I so enjoy your recollections of some of your life experiences and how you can look back and see God's hand directing your steps. Don't even think of leaving the forum when you feel down and misunderstood. Shrug it off for your experiences and your posts are an encouragement to me and I'm sure many others.
John Yurich USA wrote: Nowhere in John 3:19 or anywhere else in the Bible does it state that Jesus will look at the church that one attended in deciding who enters Heaven and you know it. The Bible states that Jesus will only look at who had trusted in Him alone for salvation by embracing Him as Savior.
No where in the bible does the church mean a building so you are making an intentionally crooked, dishonest assertion. The church is the born again body of Christ and we are encouraged to gather together as one body with many members with other born again believers. How many born again believers do you gather with when you darken the doorway of your favorite neighborhood brick and mortar RCC?
You are much closer to the truth of gathering together when you post on SA but the problem is you can't hear..... spending all your time defending your stiff-necked rebellion to come out of darkness into the glorious light of the gospel of Christ crucified.
But you can't help yourself just like Paul couldn't help himself apart from God's mercy and grace.
John Yurich USA wrote: Lurker, Where in the Bible does it state that Jesus will look at the church that one attended in deciding who enters Heaven and not just looking at who had embraced Him as Savior and trusted in Him alone for salvation in deciding who enters Heaven?
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.