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· Page 1 ·  Found: 500 user comments posted recently.
News Item8/20/14 11:10 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
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Mike wrote:
How would you like us to pray, bro?
God bless you, brother, for asking. Your kindness over the years has been precious to me not to mention your wit and humor which often gives me a much needed chuckle.

God knows better than me what His plans for the balance of my life is so I would only ask that His will be done in my life and He give me the strength to meet each day's challenges.


News Item8/20/14 10:31 AM
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Observer wrote:
Hey bro Lurker
Hope you saw my last to you.
Jim ain't too interested in correct exegesis and hermeneutics. Why waste brain cells when you can have your pastor tell you what to believe?
Sometimes I'm left wondering if Gil's middle name ain't Pope!
Good morning, brother.

Yes, I did see your post and I agree.... we need to keep in touch especially in these dark days. So much trouble all over the world. I have a tendency to go quite when my spirit is low and its been that way most of this year. I'll make it a point to update you and please do the same when you're up to it.

Blessings to you and yours.

. . .

Jim,

I didn't realize that your comment to which I first replied was off topic so no need to reply further. I don't want to be responsible for taking the thread further off topic. Btw, I did read the article you recommended as well as the entire book of Zechariah (again) before I responded below. There is no biblical support for either the preterist POV of Zech 12-14 or the dispensational futurist view with all its huge gaps spread all over the prophets. The HS is an infinitely better Author of the organic whole of the bible than that..... Think.


News Item8/20/14 12:56 AM
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Jim Lincoln wrote:
Try this one, Lurker (look over the entire article please. )
Thomas Ice wrote: A preterist cannot give a textual interpretation of Zechariah 12—14 because they believe it is to be equated with God's judgment at the hands of the Romans in A . D . 70 upon Israel...
Preterist? You think preterism is the only alternative to Dispensationalism? Where is the biblical link between the destruction of the temple (Matt 24) and 70 AD? There is none, Jim.

Zechariah was raised up as a prophet at the end of the Babylonian captivity to get the Jews to resume work on the foundation of the temple. Yet you cling to an interpretation which lops off the last three chapters and sets a 2,500 year and counting gap between them and the balance of the prophecy? This is not scholarship, Jim. It's lunacy ranking right up there with the same 2,500 year gap between the 69th and 70th week.

Btw, the BRANCH who built the temple of the Lord (Zech 6:12).... is this the same temple destroyed again in 70AD of which Zerubbabel laid the foundation? Is this the same BRANCH (and the same timeline of fulfillment) as Isaiah 11 to whom the Gentiles would seek (Is 11:10) which Paul cited as fulfilled during the time of his letter to the Romans (Rom 15:12)?


News Item8/19/14 2:20 PM
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Jim Lincoln wrote:
Thomas Ice wrote:
I have always thought that one of the most powerful arguments for the literal fulfillment of prophecy relating to Christ' s future coming is the fact that prophecy was fulfilled literally at His first coming. I still very much believe this in spite of the fact that some have attempted to dispute this important truth. Those who argue that prophecy will not be fulfilled literally in the future go against God' s past pattern and have no biblical basis for their claims.
It never ceases to amaze me that the literal hermeneutic is promoted and defended by pointing to the 'literal' fulfillment of the prophecies of the Messiah's first coming. The many prophecies of Christ's first coming were fulfilled 'precisely' as prophesied.... something that can't be said of the dispensational theory that the gathering of Israel began in 1948 or their pre-trib rapture theory. Where do the prophets teach a pre-trib rapture?

News Item8/18/14 10:29 AM
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Thanks for your encouraging post, bro. Observer.

News Item8/17/14 2:16 PM
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Jessica Dawson wrote:
My being interviewed by USA Today, and having my photo on the cover of the print version was a huge stress!
Cost of not caring: Stigma set in stone - USA Today
Jessica,

You are very brave to share that. Thank you, dear sister.

Your comments are always a blessing to me. I'm so glad you came back to SA and are establishing relationships with brothers and sisters in Christ. We all need encouragement in these dark times.

As for those who believe Calvinism is the cure for depression or that depression is a sin..... you ought not speak of things you know nothing about. Surely Job was depressed in his straits but God meant it for his eventual good. His straits wrought the cure for his pride which was sin.


News Item8/7/14 11:58 PM
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MG wrote:
Amos 9:15 And I will plant them (Israel) upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God. Prophecy will be fulfilled!
This prophecy was fulfilled long ago, MG.

Context: Amos 9:11-12 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old: That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

Fulfillment: Act 15:14-17 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

More context: Amos 9:10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword...

Fulfillment: Rom 7:9 ... when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.


News Item8/7/14 10:09 AM
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Christopher000 wrote:
Thanks Lurker. I have to re-read all of this and give it some thought. My first thought about not being able to comprehend people still hating, not believing in, rejecting, etc God after the rapture; after noticing their friends have disappeared, etc centered on Satan being able to convince God angels to rebel against and hate Him even though they were eye witnesses to His power and glory. As for a rapture turning blind eyes to God, I think about how many things man believes in these days. I think about how so many have been conditioned to believe in panspermia and aliens, and so many other things that man could potentially point to, bypassing God all together. My thoughts are a little scrambled right now and I need to go over all this again and think about it because it's a bit confusing to me.
No problem, Chris. We were talking "opinions" about a practical aspect of the rapture theory so there really is no provable right or wrong. For that reason I usually stick to scriptural arguments.

God bless, brother.

. . .

Thanks to Penny, Dorcas and GSTexas for your comments.


News Item8/5/14 11:38 PM
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GSTexas wrote:
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Who has the testimony of Jesus Christ but the church?
Also like to add that I have found your posts very informative and thought provoking brother Lurker.
Thanks GS. I'm glad you've found them helpful. Btw, good find on the verse you quoted. Pretty much shoots another hole in the claim "Incredibly, the church is never mentioned once in Revelation 4—18. This absolute silence is striking and unexplainable if the church continues on earth during the tribulation." http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/an-overview-of-pretribulational-arguments

It would be tough for the dragon to make war against the remnant of Zion's seed knowing the dragon had already been cast out of heaven to the earth (Rev 12:9) and assuming the remnant had already been raptured and in heaven. It's amazing that such glaring contradictions to the pre-trib rapture theory go un-noticed.


News Item8/5/14 10:11 AM
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Christopher000 wrote:
Thanks Lurker. I'm having some sort of a mental block though and don't understand the question. By visualizations, do you mean fear of the events happening?
Thanks for asking, Chris.

What I meant by visualizations was the many plagues and pestilences you cited from the Revelation which God sent on the unrepentant because of the hardness of their hearts, and yet for all that they would not repent. Is there any reason to believe all these plagues and pestilences happened or continued after 10% (God's reserved remnant) of the earth's population had vanished in an instant as the pre-trib rapture theory depicts?

Then there is the question of whether these plagues, pestilences, etc. are to be interpreted literally or as figures of a spiritual reality.

Think back to the terror and fear which followed the 9/11 attack. An enemy we knew and 3,000 lives lost but their remains able to be accounted for. Compare that to the disappearance of nearly a billion people.... all Christians from all over the planet. Hard to comprehend that in 3.5 years someone could convince those left behind to hate and reject the Christian God who just raptured someone they probably knew. The theory doesn't stand the practical test, imo.


News Item8/4/14 11:16 PM
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From Jim's link: http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/an-overview-of-pretribulational-arguments

"Place of the Church in Revelation

If the church will experience any or all of the coming tribulation, then one would naturally expect that the most indepth, lengthy, detailed presentation of the tribulation would include an account of the church's role during that time period. But remarkably, in the key section on the tribulation in the Bible, Revelation 4—18, there is an absolute silence about the church. And the silence is deafening."

It's worthy of note that the author's opening argument is built on the pre-supposition that the book of Revelation in chronological. One verse exposes the presupposition as faulty....

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

At the sounding of the 7th trumpet the temporal reign of Christ is history and the eternal reign begins when the 45 days of Daniel 12:12 is accomplished.

Conclusion? There are at least two different major storylines, as well as some minor ones, in the Revelation which come to pass during the same timeline.... a prevalent theme in the prophets, btw.


News Item8/3/14 2:18 PM
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Christopher000 wrote:
Hi Lurker and Dolores...can I disagree? Seems to me that mans heart is so hard that no amount of proof will soften it or punch thru its pride. Revelation tells us that mankind will chase death, though it will flee. They will hide and cry for the rocks to fall on them rather than cry out to God and repent. Plagues wil ravage them, the sky will fall upon them, and locusts from the pit will attack relentlessly for months as the world they knew implodes. God is doing all He can to wake them up...this is their last chance and His last attempt to reach out. The proof is in their face; the great I AM, the creator of all that was, is, and will ever be has.shown Himself, but instead of running to Him, they hide and seek death, still believing death will end their misery, but it's only the beginning.
Of course, Chris. You make a good case for the hardness of the unregenerate heart. No disagreement there for the Revelation is full of visualizations as you pointed out.
However, (always got to be a however) is there any reason to believe that all these visualizations continued after 10% of the earth's population disappeared? Never in history has such a supernatural event happened to strike fear in the hearts of the left behind.

News Item8/3/14 2:28 AM
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Tried to pack too much in one post and it probably got confusing so I'll summarize.

We have the famous rapture verse (1 Thes 4:17) preceded (v. 16) by the voice of the archangel (Michael, Dan 12:1) and the trump (trumpet sound, alarm of war: Jer 4:19) of God. Another concurrent verse (1 Cor 15:52) identifies that trump as the last (seventh) trumpet sound which at Rev 11:15 ushers in the eternal reign of our Lord and His Christ meaning the temporal 1,000 year reign had already come and gone. Actually, it ended when the first of the three woes begins (Rev 9:1ff).

Then there is the open book of life at Rev 10 and the seventh trumpet which is concurrent with the opening of the same book of life at the great white throne judgment.

So, when all the information from Paul and others is brought to bear, the rapture actually takes place at the resurrection of the just and unjust he looked forward to (Acts 24:15) at Daniel 12:1-3 at the end of the 70th week tribulation, at the sounding of the seventh trumpet, the voice of Michael and the great white throne judgment.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and **he shall reign for ever and ever.**


News Item8/3/14 12:56 AM
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Jim's nifty chart places Daniel's 70th week between the rapture and the 1000 year reign of Christ. A couple problems with that view; please read along as space won't permit me to copy everything.

Dan 12:7 paints a picture which has its fulfillment in Rev 10:5-7 when the seventh trumpet begins to sound and the mystery of God is finished. See Isaiah 25:6-8 for the reason for and end of the mystery. It ties in with the little open book which John was commanded to eat and prophecy again; the book of life opened at the great white throne judgment which was sealed to Daniel and his fellows in Dan 12:4. That the book of life was open at Rev 10:8 makes the sounding of the seventh trumpet concurrent with the great white throne judgment where the book was opened which is further established by: Rev 11:15

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and **he shall reign for ever and ever.**

The 1,000 year reign of Christ was past at the sounding of the seventh (last, 1 Cor 15:52 which is concurrent with Paul's rapture verse) trumpet and the eternal reign is in view.

So what of the resurrection at Dan 12:1-2? Last trump, voice of the archangel (1 Thes 4:16).


News Item8/2/14 11:23 PM
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Dolores wrote:
Lurker, I agree with John UK's last post, you know more than I do and so you may very well be right. I know we will have to go through most if not all of the tribulation. If it happens early on like Left Behind suggests, wouldn't that be so mind boggling that it would cause everyone left on earth to be so aware of this miracle and not be swayed by the AntiChrist? Just can't wrap my mind around planes falling out of the sky, etc. Not saying it couldn't happen but I see the signs that Jesus said we are to look for coming to pass even now. Jesus said to be ready and that's the most important thing He said,"Be ready"
Thank you sister. I generally stick to the details of scripture but you have brought forth a practical problem with the pre-trib rapture theory. If 10% of the planet's population suddenly vanished, all Christians, btw; surely there would be enough left to figure out what happened.... that the Christian bible was right all along and all other religions were false. The fear struck in the hearts of the left behind would be unimaginable and enduring. Kind of hard to believe someone could turn that fear of God into rejection in 3 1/2 years.

God bless you, Dolores.

. . .

Penny, Interesting article. Thanks.


News Item8/2/14 6:44 PM
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Jim Lincoln wrote:
Ah, I see there might be too many draftsmen and engineers on here, that means I should give you a blueprint! (Actually more pleasant to look at than a blueprint ) http://media.SermonAudio.com/mediapdf/11714126155.pdf (The 490 years in the Bible), but then you should listen to sermon that comes with it, http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=11714126155 (
God's Plan For the Rapture of the Church)
Nice chart, Jim.

Problem is, Cyrus was called to build a house for God in circa 516 BCE not whoever in 444 BCE. The numerology doesn't work.

Second.... a two thousand year and counting gap?

Third.... The resurrection at Daniel 12:1-2 takes place at the seventh (last, 1 Cor 15:52) trumpet sound (Compare Daniel 12:5-11 to Rev 10:5-7) after the 1,000 year reign.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; **and he shall reign for ever and ever.**

Btw, now your gap is 3,000 years and counting.


News Item8/2/14 6:03 PM
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John UK wrote:
I take a very simplistic approach to all this, bro. As in:
Matthew 24:42-44 KJV
(42) Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
(43) But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
(44) Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
I believe it was Dolores who said about the same thing earlier in this thread which I find a most commendable and biblical approach to eschatology for those who are so led by the Spirit. There are times I wish I could take the same approach but during the first six years after God's calling, He led me to study the prophets very intensely and I began to see prophecies come together in their fulfillments differently than many teach, most notably the dispensationalists and pre-trib rapture believers.

So I hope you can bear with me when I feel compelled to respond to some of the contradictions I see with certain eschatology views even though you may not understand or agree for that matter. For me to not speak up would be akin to you not speaking up when an opportunity to speak of Christ opens up at your market.


News Item8/2/14 3:19 PM
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John UK wrote:
What a hoot!
That's kind of what I thought, Bro John. If you want to check it out....

http://pre-trib.org/articles/view/matthew-2431-rapture-or-second-coming

.... and scroll down to "Who are the elect?"

But really, dealing with the trumpet sound in Matthew 24:31 is the acid test. If it's the last of seven, the 1000 year reign is past. If its the first of seven (and it is, btw), Paul's ministry to the Gentiles was just beginning and there was no Gentile Christian church to be raptured.


News Item8/2/14 12:29 PM
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I checked out how the tre-trib rapture believers handled Matt 24:29-31. Interestingly, they assert the elect here are the Jews and the church had already been raptured before the tribulation.

Paul's rapture verse (1 Thes 4:17) is tied to 1 Cor 15:52 and the "last trump" aka the seventh trumpet:

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

"For ever and ever" meaning the 1,000 year reign had already passed. And if already passed, the trumpet sound at Matt 24:31 must be referring to another than the last:

Isa 27:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.

Context: Is 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

Fulfillment: 1Co 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me.

The Matt 24:31 trumpet sound is the first of seven, not the last. Btw, see Jer 4:19.


News Item8/1/14 11:01 AM
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Jim Lincoln wrote:
References in Scripture indicate four resurrections in God's plan that will include every single person who has ever existed.

Christ/First fruits - Matthew 28; Mark 16; Luke 24; John 20 has occurred.

The second (and next) resurrection will be of Church-age believers at the first stage of His second coming as part of the 'first resurrection' of mankind - 1 Corinthians 15:50-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

So Christ is the only one to be resurrected so far?

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Looks like a few of the OT saints didn't want to wait till the third resurrection.

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