JuneAnnette wrote: Thanks Rodney. I am not using a mobile app. I have edited my comments but I was unaware you could also delete the entire comment once posted? I have posted at SermonAudio in the past, but have been away for some time.
From a desktop you can edit your comment for up to 15 minutes. During that time you can also delete your comment.
In the case of SteveR's deleted comments, it is most likely someone used the report abuse button and a moderator deleted them. He hasn't been known to have regrets about being too harsh after posting and deleting his own comments.
Glad to see you posting again and enjoying your contributions.
John for JESUS wrote: Lurker attempted to say more than the preaching of the gospel took place for the people to be convicted. Wrong!
A lot happened at Pentecost which can't be seen just by reading the Acts account:
Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For **the promise** is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
The indwelling HS was the promised gift. When was the promise made?
John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 16:7-8 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, **he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment**
"And when He is come..." There is the ministry of the HS. Deny it at your own peril.
John for JESUS wrote: Lurker... The truth of the matter is, the people at Pentecost were convicted by the preaching of the gospel. Now, how was the Holy Spirit involved in that?
So now you reject the ministry and work of the HS as outlined by Jesus? Be careful........ you're on thin ice.
Matt 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
John for JESUS wrote: All it says in Acts 2 is that the disciples went out and preached to the Jews and the people became convicted of their sins resulting in about 3000 being saved. Does your Holy Bible say any different?
John 16:7-8 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment
Do you see that J4J... "he will reprove the world of sin"?
That's why the Jews were pricked in their hearts and asked "What shall we do?" God the HS is first cause of repentance and the means He uses is the imputation of sin by the Law. Just like Paul on Damascus Road, their sin was imputed and it pricked their hearts with pangs of guilt. This is how God pulverizes a stony heart and gives a heart of flesh meet to receive the indwelling HS.
You may be thinking you're pretty cute in that you can spin most any verse to fit your perversion but you are only fooling yourself. Those of us who know how God works accept that He has allowed you to marinate in your perversion but what we don't know is if He will ever open your eyes to the truth.
Nik wrote: What drove you from your sin what was it that made you hate your sin It was this and it's always this CONVICTION Conviction is not Condemnation for you are already condemned, Conviction is God drawing you to Him. Those, whose hearts are truly convicted, they shall be broken, they shall be humbled, they shall repent, they shall believe, they shall be born again, they shall cry out LORD HAVE MERCY UPON ME, A SINNER!!! God draws you to the cross of Christ where he shed his blood, where he purchased his church, and there the (whosoever)guilty, condemned sinner can be repent, believe, be forgiven and have their name written in the lambs book of life. Praise the Lord
Now you need to ask your self: Who is the first cause of conviction and by what means does He convince of sin?
narroway wrote: "Except" - Here is the exception to nobody - The except applies to and points to an action of GOD alone. NO! NO! NO human action whatsoever! NO! NO! Except GOD and GOD alone Draws the person to Jesus. That's GOD does the drawing nobody else is involved - NB not even Christ Himself. Remember GOD draws! Get it? GOD draws.
At the same time, saith the LORD, will I be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people.
Thus saith the LORD, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.
The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with loving kindness have I drawn thee. Jer 31:1-3
Freewillers version: The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with loving kindness have I drawn thee....... subject to your decision to choose to love me, of course.
Nik wrote: Lurker writes Didn't say if your freewill was taken away...... I said if your presumed ability to choose God was proven false. Oh then that was by some other lurker an hour ago who said the exact thing you say you did not say, Scroll down its there in black n white Yet we are the liars!!! Praise the Lord
11/13/16 1:43Â PM Lurker..........
"Your assurance of salvation rests in your freewill decision and if that were taken away, proven false, you'd have nothing. Sad."
I actually agree man has freewill but its not free to make a decision for God so enough with the smart a** remarks.
But I guess you needed a diversion to avoid the biblical fact that faith is righteousness.
Rom 4:2-3 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Faith was imputed to Abraham for righteousness.
You freewillers must have some guts to flaunt your own logic and reason as biblical faith and righteousness before God.
John UK wrote: Tell me bro, what happens to a believer at the moment of their death. This is a crucial doctrine. I'm not interested in Greek or Hebrew, I want to know what the future holds for me. And I'm only interested in truth not platitudes. We're both shortly to appear before God. What transpires? Do you have an answer?
Not at all crucial IMO, for both of us have been known and loved of God with an everlasting love and when it is our time, I have no doubt it will be glorious and I am ready for He has made me ready and I'm sure you are as well.
But John, you keep doing what you need to do to sustain your health and I'd say your chances of being caught up with the living are real good.
With that I really do need to go back into hibernation. Other things demand the little free time I have had lately.
God bless and keep you, brother, until the day of His appearing.
John UK wrote: 1) What I'm interested in is what happens when a believer dies? And which component part dies, and which part is still conscious and aware of his surroundings. As you know, my take is, Absent from the body (at death) and present immediately with the Lord Jesus in heaven.
2) Your "souls under the earth" because the earth is God's footstool (altar) is puzzling me. How about there being a temple in heaven, complete with the ark of the covenant, altar etc.?
1) The best examples I've already given.... Jesus and Stephen. The Father received their Spirits upon their deaths. In the NT Greek, Spirit is pneuma and soul is psyche. In the OT Hebrew, Spirit is ruwach and soul is nephesh. Things that are different are not the same.
And to insert "at death" in 2 Cor 5:8 is an abuse of scripture. Death isn't even mentioned in the chapter but "that mortality might be swallowed up of life" is and "the earnest of the Spirit" which is cross referenced to "holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession."
2) Why not just accept it as presented, the first tabernacle identical to the one Moses built? When the 5th seal was opened, the first covenant was still extant.
John UK wrote: Therefore at death, the man is not conscious of anything until his body and soul are resurrected at the second coming of Christ.
I didn't say or intent to imply this...... namely "at death, the man is not conscious of anything". I couldn't say that without scriptural authority and I can't think of much at the moment except from the Psalms and Jonah:
Jonah 2:1-2 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
Jonah likened being in the whale's belly as being in hell (sheol, also translated grave). Clearly he was conscience and prayed to be redeemed.
Ps 49:15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.
It could be debated whether David was speaking in his own voice or in the voice of Jesus in the grave but in either case David was consciously appealing to God for his redemption while in the grave.
And then there is the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16....... clearly the rich man in hell was conscience.
I've got to go to a granddaughter's 17th birthday party this PM so one more comment and maybe later we can interact.
You wrote: "A resurrection is not "absent from the body", for it is a bodily resurrection."
Quite right, John. However:
Rom 7:24-25 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
That's the body Paul desired to be absent from and clothed upon by an immortal, incorruptible body.........
Phl 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
To deny the text speaks of the resurrection is folly, bro.
Too much in your post to address at one time so let's talk body, soul and spirit first.
In my view, all created beings begin life as body and soul..... the soul being the mind (heart) which animates the body. As a babe emerging from the womb, there is no spirit as the spirit is accumulated knowledge either good or evil which comes to us from a source outside ourselves (learning, reading, hearing, etc). A natural being (unregenerate) develops a spirit (evil, familiar) contrary to the things of God and remains that way till, if a child of promise, he/she is effectually called, regenerated and given the mind (Spirit) of Christ (love God and neighbor). God is love and will never see death, the grave, corruption. This imputed righteousness of Christ is the Spirit which returns to the Father who gave it (Eccl 12:7) when our bodies return to the dust from which we were formed.
Now this brief narrative may not conform to tradition but does it conform to the bible?
John UK wrote: 1) Matthew 10:28a KJV And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul...
2) 2 Corinthians 5:8 KJV We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
1) Two examples to demonstrate the truth of this text:
When Adam ate his soul died. Same when Paul was blinded on Damascus Road. In both cases they had transgressed God's law. A soul dies when sin is imputed by God. Man is incapable of imputation. What you are looking for is a verse which speaks of a righteous man's soul ascending to the Father when the body died. As an example, Jesus comes to mind but it was His Spirit which returned to the Father.
2) Context, John:
2 Cor 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, **that mortality might be swallowed up of life.**
1 Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, **and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.**
Paul said what he did in your prooftext in anticipation of the second resurrection (Acts 24:15), not his natural death.