John for JESUS wrote: It doesn't say God reconciled the whole world to Himself, it says God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. Which, of course, is what God was doing.
Either way it would be that the world was reconciled to God and if the word 'world' meant everyone than everyone would be reconciled to God. The part that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself has no affect on the point at hand you are loosing your sense of logic J4 and trying to wiggle out of that verse.
What about this verse then J4: John 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Two more verses that John 4 can't spin, well maybe he can lol!
John 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Above Gives life to non Christians?
John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Jesus came to save the world i.e. the none believers?
Great comments Ladybug and TMC. It is sad when someone has to spin the Bible so that they can hold onto their false beliefs. I wonder if it's not some pride involved as well. J4 couldn't admit that his comment that all flesh has to mean all flesh. He went away for awhile hoping those comments would go away.
Steve are you accusing Ladybug of doing nothing, not helping the poor and being prideful?
Ezekiel 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
How would you know if she does or doesn't even give to help others?
SC where did you get that baptism would make the cross of Christ of no effect if Paul did it? Surely Paul would not try to 'frustrate the Grace of God' with legalistic behavior and detract from the finish work of Christ.
s c wrote: Thanks for the input,John and Kev... it helps to remember that we are not Apostles. and,of course,even Paul who was not sent to baptize but to preach,did also circumcise Timothy... It might help to understand that baptism (cleansings)is a Jewish rite which,in reality,makes the cross of none effect. Even Moses sprinkled the people with blood. I guess there could be a case made for sprinkling after all.
SC you have to realize that Baptism like the Lord's Supper is a type/picture of the spiritual reality:
Romans 6 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection:
Likeness of death going under the water.
Likeness of resurrection coming out of the water.
To say that baptism makes the cross of Christ of no effect would be like saying the same for the Lord's Supper. We are to do these things in remembrance of Him. This is not a legalistic command but to celebrate Him.
John UK wrote: Aha, I'm with you bro; a sort of legalistic attitude - hyper baptist. Phew! Who'd want to be one of those? All okay here - I'm getting fired up!
I'm about to do some evangelism as well because of the time off I'm getting. I'm going to write out my own track print them and take your idea of using a blog to answer any questions that may come up in the mind of someone who is coming to Christ.
I will pray that your new ministery is blessed. Take care Brother.
John UK wrote: Glad to hear it Kev. I don't know what a hyper Baptist is, but I'm thrilled you're not one of them.
Yeah it was more s made up term to go along with the situations that SC talked about with families being broke up over baptism. I guess those could be the new trend of hyper-baptists
Hope all is going well Brother John U.K.
I'm also a little shocked at SC's last comment as well. Notice the requirement Paul have to the Ethiopian Eunuch 'believe'. Anyone who is baptized and is not in covenant is because they deceived themselves or they have lied or have been misinformed or misguided. This answers SC's comments about people living like the devil and took part in believers baptism. Even Jesus did not stop Judas Iscariot from partaking in the Lord' Supper.
J4 I owe you an apology because I thought you may have been JJ. I hit the magnifying glass and realized it wasn't you. You don't communicate the way that JJ does. Sorry about that.
J4 listen to Ladybugs comment it very good regarding your last post.
s c wrote: Kev,there is only ONE baptism which matters.. Note that Paul was not,Paul,the Baptist. Water baptism was a sign of repentance and for forgiveness of sins...there were no more animals being sacrificed then. We baptize today by preaching the word. You ask what one does with those who are infant baptized and live like the devil. The same could be asked of those who are baptized with natural water and live as such too. The best way to follow Christ is to live a lifestyle that honors Him,not getting dunked publicly.
SC we are suppose to follow the command of Jesus and His apostles clearly His disciples baptized with water as well just look at the Ethiopian Eunich. Are you saying we should not follow the clear examples given by the Apostles. When was the Etheopian baptized?
Acts 8:36-38King James Version (KJV)
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water..
SteveR wrote: On matters of doctrine, I stopped taking notes on you long ago. Remember? You are like the annoying guy that sings along on songs knowing only half the words and sings out of tune. I did agree with the shameless liar part after you said this... ""Thanks Ladybug it kind of makes sense that John Y would think it is ok to be part of a Luciferian cult and think everything is fine as long as you 'claim' Christ.""
I'm not gonna give you anything Steve but I'm sorry John Y if you Take from that that you are part of a Luciferian cult which I did not mean. But I did mean you can't do whatever you want and just 'claim' Jesus and that I do for John because like I've said I'd rather be wrong than me be right and John Y is doing something he shouldn't.
On the part of me saying things that are Heretical when you point out something wrong then I will thank you for pointing out my error.
SteveR wrote: I'm sure jj meant Kev was a heretic , vile and shameless, but agree he should have put some sugary perfume on it even though correct. Afterall, its not like we are talking about cases where PC Christians all of a sudden get a license to be vulgar ignorant jerks like in their criticisms of Obama, The Pope or Billy Graham
You just tell me where I was heretical or else:
Exodus 23:1King James Version (KJV)
23 Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.
This verse is absolutely perfect for you Steve and this situation.
I even try and be nice to you Steve don't worry I forgive you.
You believe predestination don't you Steve? Yet you run to the help of someone who says it is a satanic Islamic lie. Very telling. What about the love of the word of God?
JJ wrote: Kev Sandiego said to me in his shameless to the death heretical mouth because i exposed his satanic Calvinism as being from the lie of Islam. "29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation." It is YOU Kev who that verse refers to, shameless vile reverse psychologist.
So your saying the doctrine predestination and the doctrine of Grace/'Calvinism' is a Satanic lie from Islam?
Just answer ladybugs questions.
And I'm the one who is blaspheming? I gave you quotes from Augustine that lived before Muhammad. Where did you hear this story about Islam and predestination some website?
Please tell me how you exposed all this information as well?
John for JESUS wrote: Kev... I might be thinking of something else then. You bring up something I vaguely remember talking about and then call me wrong, lol. To take a literal approach to the Bible doesn't mean you don't believe in figures of speech...you still have room to grow and learn. Saying the word "world" in John 3:16 is a figure of speech or doesn't really mean world would be wrong though. God really does love the whole world! Something your side can't stand. I would suggest you don't understand the character of God if you think His love is limited to a random few.
J4 you say: 'Don't understand God if His love is limited to a random few'
What about the OT He only gave salvation to Israel! God does not
change 'I change not therefore you sons of Jacob are not consumed'!
World meaning every single person is a Jewish figure of speech like I have shown many times and TMC has just pointed out!
Just like the Pharisees said 'the whole world has gone after Him' when they talked of Jesus's followers.
What I can't stand is when people can't let the word of God speak for itself.
I have been a Christian for about a year now and I started off like you are now.
You said flesh is alway flesh and laugthed at us 'Calvinists' lol
Look even google knows what the word predestinated means:
preÂ·desÂ·tine prÄ“Ëˆdestin/ verb past tense: predestined; past participle: predestined (of God) destine (someone) for a particular fate or purpose... determine (an outcome or course of events) in advance by divine will or fate. "she was certain that fate was with her and everything was predestined" synonyms: preordained, ordained, predetermined, destined, fated "I find it hard to believe that our lives are predestined"
It's sad some will sin and call the work of the Holy Spirit a heresy of Islam!:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
I wonder how John Calvin snuck the word predestinate/ Greek proorizÃ³: to predetermine, foreordain, into the Bible? Time travel(God promised to preserve his word)
So wait the word predestinated should not even be in the Bible if we make up our own minds on our own:
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
JJ go look up strongs 4309 before you blaspheme the work of the Holy Spirit and say it is a construct of Islam and a Heresy.
JJ wrote: Calvinism is from the Islamic heresy of predestination. Research the Islamic belief system about predestination and you will find the lie of Calvinist predestination as well.
Augustine quote (he was alive before Muhammad was born):
When, therefore, the gospel is preached, some believe, some believe not; but they who believe at the voice of the preacher from without, hear of the Father from within, and learn; while they who do not believe, hear outwardly, but inwardly do not hear and learn-- that is to say, to the former it is given to believe; to the latter it is not given. Because "no man," says [Jesus] , cometh to me, except the Father which sent me draw him."
Now a man is made a good tree when he receives the grace of God. For it is not by himself that he makes himself good instead of evil; but it is of Him, and through Him, and in Him who is always good. And in order that he may not only be a good tree, but also bear good fruit, it is necessary for him to be assisted by the self-same grace, without which he can do nothing good...
If you knew anything of Islam you would know it is modeled off truths of Christianity. The fact that the idea of predestination may exist is because this was the belief of early Christians.
You mean this verse J4 it has nothing to do with real psychical circumcision of the flesh notice the phrase 'circumcision without hands':
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Here it is: Jeremiah 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.
Apostolic teaching of these V's from Paul: Romans 2:29
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Wayfarer Pilgrim wrote: I would be interested in knowing of the repeated posters on this comment board as to what church you attend. I attend a baptist church. I think many of the discussions or disagreements are due to our chosen ( interesting term) church affiliation.
I'm not sure exactly the denomination of my Church if I was to guess it would be Sovereign Grace and I'm sure they wouldn't mind the title Baptist.
Found here on SA Don Fortner: Baptism
Here is the teaching of my Churches affiliation as this is my Pastors pastor.