John for Jesus wrote: 1.That was hundreds of years after both men died! God was talking about Edom. Even if He was talking about Esua, Esua had died and gone to hell by that time. I don't know if God has any love for those people anymore. Kev... 2) I gave you a few already! 3) Do you love anyone who is not saved? Do you think God's love for them is any less?! Get for real! When God says to love your enemies, do you think He does any less? 4) That is their fault, not His. God draws believers and Jesus will raise them up on the Last Day.
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
2. No you didn't. 3. You can't compare your ways with God's:
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 4. You twist the scriptures. Like you said you haven't come to Christ right?
What about Jeremiah 31:3? You have no sense of logic John you are either blinded or you are dishonest with the scriptures.
Anne wrote: Are the prayers of the righteous effective because they petition God to change His mind; or is it rather that the righteous person, through the loving command to pray, experiences the moving of the Holy Spirit in their hearts to conform their will to God's?
Good comment. When we ask in accordance to His will we shall receive it. You mentioned prayer and related it with the moving of the Holy Spirit:
John 14:13-17King James Version (KJV)
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Prayer is mentioned and the Holy Spirit is told that He will work in you. The wills become similar and your prayers turn to align with God's will and glorifying God.
John for Jesus wrote: Kev... 1. I may not know Greek, but I know God. He loves the world! 2. What, you think there are people out there that you love and God doesn't?! That your love is somehow greater than God's? 3. How arrogant of you! Is God's love somehow lacking? Lol. Think again!
1. According to your mistranslation right? Just show me another verse where God loves every single person. I have given you many that shows he hates some. 2. You cannot compare man's hate with God's hate they are totally different He hates because He is Just. Tell me what part He loves of a wicked reprobate? 3. You are the one saying God's love is lacking lol you don't thing that all he loves will come to Him!
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Here is that same drawing talked about above, remember you said it was going into the sky, notice here it's past tense: Jeremiah 31:3
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
James Thomas wrote: I have not been shown a better definition than when Kosmos appears in the parable of the tares in Matthew 13:36-43 where in verse 38 Jesus said "The field is the worldâ. (Matt.23:1). Test it out with other Scripture and you will find that there are references to "a people" 1 Chronicles 16:32-33 "fields rejoicing"
Hey James nice to see you posting Brother I've noticed what you are talking about also through the word "vineyard" which is a field for grapes:
5 And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:
6 And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.
7 For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression;
These verses are packed with spiritual metaphors and biblical definitions. A "vineyard" and "vine" study are great if you haven't done that study already. I will study "field" some more thanks for the tip Brother.
pennelope wrote: and what city is called spiritual Sodom in Revelations? have we not seen these kinds of things in commnst revolutions? its being played out in the courts. study 1917 globalism v national survival. NWO v individual rights. consolidated wealth for a few through breaking families and the Christian message which stands in their way. Rothchild
Have you seen the Israeli Supreme Court take a look at the top of the building. You will see the pyramid with the eye of Horus on top of it much like on the back of the one dollar bill where it says in Latin "novus ordo seclorum" new order of the ages. The building was designed and funded by the Rothschilds.
John for Jesus wrote: Kev... Yes, God loved the people of Sodom and Gomorrah..He allowed Abraham to talk Him down from 50 to 10. Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?â... Ezekiel 18:23 Say to them: â As I live,â says the Lord God , âI have no pleasure in the death of the wicked... Why would He care if He only hated them? When I pointed out that God first loved us, it was while we were still sinners who you suggest God only hates. If John 3:16 was the only verse that mentions God love for the world, that would be enough!
Abraham talked down God and got God to change His mind, He who has no shadow of turning
Endures wicked: Romans 9:22
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
You have mixed that God has no pleasure in seeing the destruction of the wicked with He loves them, it's not the same.
We love Him because He first loved us. God's love is effectual pay close attention: Jeremiah 31:3 â The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved THEE with an everlasting LOVE: THEREFORE with lovingkindness HAVE I DRAWN THEE.
You don't understand the use of the Greek word 'kosmos' for world.
John for Jesus wrote: Kev... And what does all that have to do with the topic of this thread? Are you saying God hates gays? Are you going to join Westboro Baptist Church and protest at gay people's funerals? Or do you believe sinners have certain rights under the law not to be attacked or killed? Again, I don't believe Christians are doing those things anyways and those laws can and will be used against believers. However, we need to try to protect the safety of all people.
As I said we are to love all people. I think the Westboro people are a bad testimony to Christ. I am very kind to all people I go to a public college. We should draw a line for promoting protection for all human life and never should it have a agenda as protecting homosexuals so as that they may mix up acceptance with protecting ones life for being a human. If this is the view we should have then we should first concentrate of saving unborn children's lives more then anyone else. The homosexuals already have plenty of protection under our laws.
I was wondering where you got that God loves everyone other then John 3:16 which I have discussed with you at nauseum. I showed you verses of God's righteous hate.
So God burned down Sodom though He loves sodomites?
Good comment UPS. SC, It would make no sense if someone accused you of being a drunk and you said "I come eating and drinking". The topic was alcohol. Christ never denied drinking rather said he did but denied being a drunk. It is rather clear if you let scripture mean what it says and not try to impose ones beliefs onto scripture.
John for JESUS wrote: 1) You can't pick and choose which verses you are going to believe. If it says Jesus takes away the sins of the world, believe it! 2) Christians are appointed to receive salvation and and unbelievers are appointed to wrath. It hasn't happened yet. 3) Yes, 1 John 4:19! He first loved us!
1. Your right you can't pick and choose which verses you will believe:
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
2. You can't twist this one:
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
3. Those he love he chasteness:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
It say who God loves he chasteness so you believe that God chasteness reprobates? It says he leaves them to themselves :
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly..
28 And even..God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Christopher000 wrote: Thanks Kev. I don't believe drinking is a good thing, and should be avoided by anyone who can't fully control their intake, etc., but for those who can and like to have a glass of wine with dinner, we'll, I just don't see the biblical issue.
Exactly and this has been the talking point for pretty much everyone. Yet through vain philosophy and flowery words others have been trying to push their opinion on others, telling them how to walk in the spirit and so on. We are to do all we do by faith being led by the Spirit anything off this narrow path is sin and one man's path is not another's and we have no right above scripture to judge what is clean or unclean for someone else.
I see an unbiblical agenda or someone I feel is in sin I'm gonna tell them straight out for their own good and others.
I think drinking is wise to stay away from especially for weaker Christians such as myself this is my opinion but I would not try to push this on others as biblical truth or some greater spiritual path.
God's love and hate: When reading about God's love watch for object of it such; us, them, you, who it is written to etc..I believe we are commanded to love all but does a just God love all:
Psalm 11:5 5Â The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
Hosea 9:15 15Â All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.
Malachi 1:2 2Â I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,
Malachi 2:17 17Â Ye have wearied the Lord with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the Lord, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?
John 15:10 10Â If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Jude 21 21Â Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Psalm 5:5 5Â The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Christopher000 wrote: Having a drink, a glass of wine, or whatever, isn't a sin, and nobody can prove it, biblically. In fact, just the opposite can be proven...Then, to get it the rest of the way down the throat, a plunger is used as somebody stands on your face, and screams, "Sinner! Sinner! Sinner!" I don't get it because things seem pretty clear and straightforward. Is it a sin to drink a glass of fermented wine, consuming in extreme moderation moderation? The answer is all that matters (to me anyway).
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
As they hold others to made up sin they fall into real sin themselves. I offered to apologize if they could simply state "moderate alcohol use is not sinful and our righteousness and merit comes from Jesus Christ alone" it seems anyone who can't make this simple statement is hiding their true feelings.
RalphNorman wrote: That is the so good to know . . thank you. Kev, I'm using Ralph's computer as SA blocked my posts at mine. Just as well, because after much prayerful consideration, I too have decided to cease from any further engagement at this forum, and for the very reasons Ladybug has cited. I did however want to make amends and much-needed apologies to those I have harmed by my words as a final gesture. Kev, I am truly relieved to learn that Ladybug still regards me as her sister in the Lord. Tell my dear sister that I am glad the Lord put her in my path and that I will keep her in my thoughts and prayers. - Rom. 8:28 Thanks again to all my beloved brethren in the Lord .. Kev, Christopher, Lurker, MS. In Christian fellowship & love, JuneAnnette
No problem I will pass your message along to her. You are a great example of humility. We know God works all things for our good. You guys take care and God bless
MS wrote: Kev/JA/and others. I too have left this site. Just kept checking in to see if ladybug had seen the postings Thanks to those who I had some good biblical fellowship. May the Lord bless you and keep you till we meet at our Fathers House. Bye.
I'll see you again dear sister. You take care and God bless. Thanks for helping me find a Church and all that has been a great blessing to me God bless.
John UK wrote: Yes brother, I am sure she will clear it up, so there is no misunderstanding. Please note what she said earlier: "If there is liberty to use alcohol in moderation, there is also to abstain..." I took that to mean: 1. There is liberty to use alcohol in moderation. 2. There is liberty to abstain from alcohol. Sounds like total liberty.
She will not simply clarify her stance with just a few sentences this should speak volumes.
Look at this statement from BMC:
Kev "Is it sinful to drink .." 1. Your question can be answered with other questions Is it helpful? Does it enhance my influence, testimony and example? See points in post 2/11/17 7:52 PM &8:52 PM It is not a matter of two equal choices. Potential detriment is attached to one choice and not to the other. The life in the Spirit is juxtaposed against the effects of wine
juxÂˇtaÂˇpose ËjÉkstÉËpĹz/ verb past tense: juxtaposed; past participle: juxtaposed place or deal with close together for contrasting effect. "black-and-white photos of slums were starkly juxtaposed with color images"
Meaning in contrast. She is saying walking in the Spirit is in contrast with drinking in moderation as this has been my only point. She is full of double talk.