Brother John just like UPS pointed out the law is nowhere mentioned divided the way that it if done in reformed theology. Remember what you said the law of Moses is? Now take that definition and apply it to your reading of Acts 15. The scripture is clear. I don't follow any line of beliefs that doesn't hold up under scripture. Notice their isn't one place in the Bible saying follow the moral law because it isn't their no such division is seen biblically it is a man made invention. When people like Pink get to a verse they don't understand they go well they don't really mean your free from the law just the consequences. When clearly Paul says in other places free from the curse of the law. You are married to Christ in Romans 7 and divorced from the law. Then they say well you still have some sort of relationship with the law. In the NT Jesus and the disciples gively plenty of light to live by don't you think? What is one thing that isn't clear from the NT. Clearly the old covenant is gone in Heb 8:13 and the covenant was embodied by the tables of the covenant. Just like Don Fortner said you are free from the law but that doesn't mean to live in direct violation of it. We are free to serve Christ and it is the love of Christ that constrains us.
Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his COVENANT, which he commanded you to perform, [even] TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two TABLES OF STONE.
Deu 9:11 And it came to pass at the end of forty days and forty nights, [that] the LORD gave me the TWO TABLES OF STONE, [even] the TABLES OF THE COVENANT.
13 In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT, he hath made THE FIRST OLD. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is READY to VANISH AWAY..
14 BLOTTING OUT the HANDWRITING of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, NAILING it to his CROSS;
Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of TWAIN ONE new man, so making peace;‚ÄĚ
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become DEAD TO THE LAW by the BODY OF CHRIST; that ye should be MARRIED to ANOTHER, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Still no bible verses just theories from the writing of fallible men.
6 But now we are DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should SERVE in NEWNESS OF SPIRIT, and not in the OLDNESS of the LETTER.
"The "Law of Moses" is the entire system of legislation, judicial and ceremonial, which Jehovah gave to Israel during the time they were in the wilderness. The Law of Moses, as such, is binding upon none but Israelites. This Law has not been repealed. That the Law of Moses is not binding on Gentiles is clear from Acts 15."
So Pink says obviously the Law of Moses is not binding on Gentile believers. I agree with that.
Nowhere in the Bible is the law of Moses defined as he did nowhere this is one of the Heresies of Reformed doctrine.
32 And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the TRADITION OF MEN, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in ALL THINGS which are written in the book of the law to do them.
The Bible has taken a backseat and the opinions of men have been held up
The Law of Christ's Kingdom Don Fortner tinysa.com/sermon/47132255143
Here is a biblical definition of the law of Moses. It is clear here it is the Ten Commandments: Joshua 8:32 And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel.
Now look what happened when some said that the newly converted gentiles must keep the law of Moses:
Acts 15: 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Now see what Pink says about Acts 15:
"The "Law of Moses" is the entire system of legislation, judicial and ceremonial, which Jehovah gave to Israel during the time they... OOS
1. Using the Mosaic covenant as though it is the covenant between you and God.
2. Attempting to be justified by one's own works.
3. Attempting to be sanctified by one's own works
4. Suggesting that our worth or worthlessness, our self-esteem and self-satisfaction or lack thereof, rest on our own works.
5. Any attempt to please God judicially, or any supposition that our sin as believers has resulted in his judicial displeasure. [Any post-salvation attempt to maintain our judicial standing before God through good works, covenant faithfulness, merit etc..]
You guys said irrelevant I told you guys that wasn't appropriate. I said binding was the word.
Bind-ing: adjective 1. (of an agreement or promise) involving an obligation that cannot be broken. "business agreements are intended to be legally binding" synonyms: irrevocable, unalterable, inescapable, unbreakable, contractual; More
Are you bound to the Law of Moses? Look at the synonyms for binding. The whole conversation was are we "under the law". The Bible says otherwise which I have given plenty of verses. It started off with the point is are we to follow the Fourth commandment. Which I showed from Heb was always a sign pointed to Christ.
You pointed to a divorced woman. Does not the NT give ample instruction? Do you follow the rules given in the OT for divorce. Clearly Jesus gave new instruction on this matter.
You guys keep not getting what I'm telling you. --- BMC your point has always been keeping the Ten Commandments and you partially quoted 1 John. What are the commandments we are told to keep in the verses then? --- Penned now you said your NOT"under the law" and they have been saying you are. Are you judged by the Ten Commandments? No one said not to walk according to the light given you guys are mixing apples with oranges.
pennelope wrote: actually..... Jesus did die that we could fulfill His commandments. all hearts are turned away. but now that we are in the family, Br. Kev says we are obligated to love.
I don't know what all this letting homosexual pastors and Hilsong stuff is about I see the comment below where BMC tries to use 1John 3:24 out of context and say : "And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him" and say this refers to the law when in the next verse it clearly lists Jesus's Commandments:
1 John 3:23
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Then she says I don't take verses in context!
Do you think you keep any of the Law remember Jesus elaborates on what to keep the law means on the Sermon on the Mount to Jews who thought they kept the law.
As I said many times not under the law means led by the Spirit vice verse if Jesus lives in you (Seed) you are not under the law but under Grace.
I'm still waiting as well for something that we need to follow that is not found in the NT
Hb8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Mike wrote: Jesus didn't die and rise again that we might be enabled to keep the commandments, he died because as unbelievers we were unable to keep them, and as believers we are still unable to keep them. We throw ourselves upon his mercy for continuing forgiveness, not upon our enablement to keep the commandments. 1 John 1:8,9 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Believers have an advocate in Him for a reason.
See your not listening again I said awhile back that 9 of the Ten Commandments where reiterated in the NT. In Acts 15 they made sure to add those things that weren't as clear from the Gospels that are nessisary
So no answer to any of my questions huh, are you gonna be judged by the Ten Commandments?
Has Christ redeemed you from under the law?:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To REDEEM them that WERE UNDER THE LAW, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
I haven't seen one verse showing we "are under the law" seen a lot saying we're:
"Were under the law" "Free from the law" "Dead to the law" "Free from the curse of the law" Etc.. but you guys say we're still UNDER the Mosaic Law. Nowhere in the Bible does it suggest this. Acts 15 is clear if you don't try to make it fit your theology. Hey I use to think like you guys but couldn't find verses to back it up and found verses that said otherwise.
As I said the OT can be used for much wisdom. It is Holy and perfect. God gave it and Christ fully lived under it to redeem us from being under it and having to be judged by it to all who believe. --- Read Rom 3:31 in light of its context in Rom 4
B. McCausland wrote: "To the law (towrah) and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them" 2. Yes, sometimes the context indicates that, as in Act 15..
1. You are using a verse out of Isaiah 700 years before Christ. I never said you can do whatever you want. I have said specifically the wording "under the law" as in binding. When they have said lawless I have corrected them as well. Now do I speak not according to the word:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that WERE UNDER THE LAW, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Simple english "WERE UNDER THE LAW": if you were under my car past tense that doesn't mean you are now!
Christ fulfilled the law which we could not do redeeming us from under the law which is God's unbreakable law.
Are you judged by the law?
Ye are not under the law but under grace. What is Grace?Getting something you didn't earn right?Christs merit
Because no flesh shall be justified by the law.
Gal3:10 For..for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth NOT IN ALL THINGS WHICH ARE...Law to do them.
B. McCausland wrote: "Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law (towrah)"
So now your saying the law is the Torah see if that holds up:
Acts 15: 5¬†But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to KEEP the LAW OF MOSES. 6¬†And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 10¬†Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a YOKE upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were ABLE TO BEAR? 19¬†Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are TURNED TO GOD: 20¬†But that we write unto them, that THEY ABSTAIN from pollutions of IDOLS, and from FORNICATION, and from things strangled, and from blood. 24¬†Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have TROUBLED you with words, SUBVERTING your souls, SAYING, Ye must be circumcised, and KEEP THE LAW: to whom WE GAVE NO such COMMANDMENT: 28¬†For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Remember you said the law of Moses was only the ceremonial law.
B. McCausland wrote: Yes, the phrase "under the law" should be understood as the non-valid means of justification by works, instead it is confused as to the absence of rule re. conduct issues
So does you definition make any sense with this verse:
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under works base salvation.
Doesn't work sin shall not have dominion over you because you are not under the law:
1Cor15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the STRENGTH of SIN IS the LAW.
Be not deceived by man when it says you are not under the law it means just that. If it meant judgement he would of used free from the curse of the law which Paul also uses along with "dead" and "free" I know this goes against your confessions of faith and you think If we don't have laws that born again Christians led by the Spirit are gonna become lawless:
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
What law do you think that is not clear by the apostles or Jesus's teaching?
Will you be judged by the law?
I have corrected you guys when you said irrelevant and said that it should be binding.
1 John 3 9¬†Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his SEED remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is BORN OF GOD.
Galatians 3:19 19¬†Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, TILL the SEED SHOULD COME to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Born of God: Galatians 4:4-5 4¬†But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made UNDER the LAW, 5¬†To REDEEM them that WERE UNDER THE LAW, that we might receive the ADOPTION OF SONS.
Now contrast the verses you took in light of the verses before that:
1 John 1:8 8¬†If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
So does the verses you gave mean you are literally without sin? Or are you starting to see what it means not to be under the law. Sin does not have dominion over you because you are not under the law see Rom6:14
Do you think you keep the law? No flesh shall be justified by the law the law was to shut up every mouth before God and make man guilty. The power of sin is the law. Being under the law means it has dominion over you:
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law..
Will you be judged by the law? I hope not. You will be judged by: Romans 2 16¬†In the day when God shall JUDGE the secrets of men by Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO MY GOSPEL.(Love)
Now contrast that with a few verses later how he talks to the teachers of the law:
19¬†And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 20¬†An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21¬†Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22¬†Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23¬†Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
The Sermon on the Mount is a perfect example of what the law requires its to push you to Jesus not you thinking you keep the law.
Hey James the law says they should of stoned her but she wasn't under the law but under grace see Rom6:14 good picture bro it was either by the letter or by the Spirit.
V1 talks about dominion of the law over man. Romans 7
7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man...but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law..married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
So is the analogy correct? Can a man be married and have anything to do with his dead wife? The analogy is clear you are dead so you may bear fruit to God. The law is the ministration of death and can only bear fruit unto death because no one keeps it:
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
So now the question comes is does someone who is led by the Spirit need laws to tell them what to do?
Not by the hand not by the letter but the conscience being led by the Spirit: Jeremiah 31:31-33
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
The letter kills as it is set in stone and they who do them shall live by them. The Ten Commandments are a ministration of death 2Cor3:7. If you don't think so look at the sermon on the Mount if you think you keep one of them. The law is the power of sin 1 Cor15:56. When the Bible says you are not under the law doesn't mean you are lawless.