MS wrote: Btw US, concerning staying home instead of attending a brick and mortar that calls itself "church"; when a faithful gospel precher arrives in our neck of the woods and preaches Jesus Christ and His glorious gospel of Grace we'll be there to encourage, support and be a blessing in any way that our Lord directs. Until then..Israel to their tents!
5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my well-beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
John Yurich USA wrote: I believe the RCC teaches a different gospel, that it denies salvation on the Merits of Christ alone, that it denies the sufficiency of Christ's Atonement, that it denies Christ's Sacrifice is Finished and that it demands submission to "mediators" other than Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
You admit they teach another Gospel and the Bible says let them be accursed and you worship with them! Nonsense.
myw wrote: "There is no evidence whatever that the apostolic churches were in the possession of any hymns, except those which have been transmitted to us in the Scriptures. Should any one be disposed to insist that the apostolic churches were in the use of hymns besides those contained in the Scriptures, the burden of proof lies upon him..."
Isaiah 42:10 ‚ÄúSing unto the LORD a NEW SONG, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof.‚ÄĚ
It clearly says sing a NEW SONG now you show me where it's says sing only old songs the burden of proof is on you.
I see it that if you show what Christ has done for them they will want to please God and they will conform themselves to the Word of God. They are told that they are completely free and now they serve in gratitude not in 'obligation'. You think that if you tell them they are free they'll go out and sin I don't believe this to be the case. I would tell them if the Law had anything to do with them they shall surely die this being the Ministration of death. You bring up a very appropriate situation you search the scripture and he comes up with this verse on divorce:
24 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
Do you tell him this is the law he is under?
The OT suffered it to be so lawfully. Your gonna have a contradiction if you tell him he is under the Law of Moses on this subject. Best tell him to look to Christ.
The consequences of not walking up rightly are a separation from your relationship with God and a child of God should be able to feel this and want to change(from my experience).
Hello 2 Tim. In Romans 7 Paul says that the law has dominion over a person as long as he lives but he said it killed him. He compares the law to the law of a husband. After a husband dies what part of the husbands law are you still bound to?
Read 1 Tim in context he is actually rebuking those who try to tell Christians to look to the law he calls in vain jaingling:
1 Tim 6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
The rigtheous man that he is talking about is Christians which he says the law is not for.
If I told you that not one word will pass from something TILL 5, what do you think will happen at 5? Jesus said not a letter will pass TILL all be fulfilled. Did not Jesus fulfil all? Matthew 5:18
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, TILL all be FULFILLED.
In Matthew 5:19 one of THESE Commandments is the commands Jesus gives in the following verses.
No more room to address those other verses. --- John as I have said all scripture is profitable for teaching in righteousness 2 Tim 3:16 but you have not heard what I have said many times.
John UK wrote: 1.With the moral laws broken, there was need for the sacrificial laws, which provided forgiveness and reconciliation through the "shadow" sacrifices - millions of animals killed - picturing Christ. Note, 1689 Baptist ch19 2. 5. The moral law.. any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation. 3.Although true believers be not under..it is of great use to them..as a rule of life..
1. Hebrews 10:4
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
2. The obligation to the law does not seperate itself from its curse, we are unable to fulfill any obligation of the law:
11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.
Gal 3:12 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written: ‚ÄúCursed is every one who continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
This is why the law is put away it is the ministration of death.
3. I can agree with the part I left. Use bible verses it's more helpful bro. I'm going to hang out with my wife now. Have a greatday
That's good you can say that! If you read through my comments you won't be able to pick out anything that I is contrary to what the Bible says.
The verses I just put says the Tables of the covenant(the Ten Commandments) are done away. They are totally put away. Look at how they were put away in the OT it is a picture of Christ. Sealed in the Ark under the MERCY SEAT a picture of Christ.
The Ten Commandments where the very basis of the Old Covenant
18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, TWO TABLES OF TESTIMONY, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
The New Testimony is the words of Christ:
21 He that hath MY COMMANDMENTS, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
13 In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth OLD is ready to VANISH AWAY.
The Bible over and over again says how the old covenant is gone including the Tables of the Covenant. Why doesn't the Bible ever say simple look to the 10 Commandments. Just as in Luke 9:35 when they brought up Moses what did God say? Look to Christ.
1. He also says you are not under the moral law. Can you say that as well? Don't put a but in that statement either. This doesn't mean to go break it.
2&3. Romans 2:12
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
2 Cor 3 3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, but in fleshy tables of the HEART.
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the NEW TESTAMENT; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the LETTER KILLETH, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the MINISTRATION OF DEATH, written and ENGRAVEN IN STONE, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be GLORY, much more doth the ministration of righteousness EXCEED IN GLORY.
11 For if that which is DONE AWAY WAS GLORIOUS, much more that which REMAINETH Is GLORIOUS. See Jer 31 1 Kings 8:9 Tells who the tables of the covenant were given to. Not to everyone. -- Hey Bro James hope all has been going well your way.
As I have said you are not to live contrary to the OT and the OT is profitable for teaching. I said multiple times just as the Bible says you are free from the law.
The Bible declares free and dead. Some people think that the child of God will go turn to lasciviousness if you tell him this Paul answers those objections as I have shown.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
I've seen a lot of false assumptions about what I said that was wrong yet I would like to see it specifically pointed out from MY COMMENTS. The comments in response to mine do not even reflect what I had said, they are made on assumptions.
John UK wrote: Ahem, Kev. Let me spell it out for you. You say "totally gone".
Should I of said obliterated or eradicated?
a¬∑bol¬∑ish …ôňąb√§liSH/ verb past tense: abolished; past participle: abolished formally put an end to (a system, practice, or institution). "the tax was abolished in 1977" synonyms: put an end to, get rid of, scrap, end, stop, terminate, ax, eradicate, eliminate, exterminate, destroy, annihilate, stamp out, obliterate, wipe out,..
Ephesians 2:15 Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, EVEN the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;‚ÄĚ
Here is a Sermon from a MAN YOU suggested(to Connor) who I like as well and he has my same exact view.
The problem is that you are viewing that God's law can be changed to exclude its consequences when I believe it is seen as a whole:
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL.
Listen to the sermon I gave I won't discuss this with you anymore as you get a little to upset at this topic BRO. But you will find everything I said I backed it up with scripture.
As I have said again many times I never said irrelevant. I said all scripture is profitable for teaching in righteousness. I can make up false constructs and say you don't believe the NT is sufficient. The NT is clear we will be Judged by the Gospel. What we are judged by should that not be what we look to?
You didn't answer many of my questions. The Bible says dead to the law so that's what I believe. I don't put a parenthesis in there and say but. The teaching is clear we are not under the law.
You have a goodnight Bro and hope all is going well with you.
Can you show me where they distinguish the ceremonial law apart from the whole? I've never seen it.
It says that the law that put enmity between us and God was abolished, how could that be said of the ceremonial law? See Eph 2:15
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
This can only be the moral law which we have broke and which God demands justice to. Thank God Jesus has abolished that for us in His flesh.
Abolished means totally gone. -- Hey Dave G'day mate
John UK wrote: Kev, so what would you say to my new convert? He then says, "I've been living in an adulterous relationship; I've sinned against God and against my wife. I must stop it immediately, because you showed me where God says, "Thou shalt NOT commit adultery." What shall I then say to him? "Oh don't worry about it, the law is only for sinners, and you are now a Christian."
Do you not think the NT is sufficient for this?
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
In the time of the apostles when Paul was writing to Gentile assemblies did he have to tell them to refer to the OT? How would they of read it?
1 Timothy 1:8-9
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the LAW IS NOT MADE FOR a RIGTHEOUS MAN, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers
Purpose of the Law for the Gospel: Galatians 3:24-26
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are NO LONGER UNDER A SCHOOLMASTER.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
What Christ has done to bring you out from under the law. Gal 3 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth NOT IN ALL THINGS which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the LAW IS NOT OF FAITH: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
The Gospel is that Jesus was made accursed for us to deliver us from the law which we could not fulfill and whose wages were death.
--- Thanks NeedHim for the link hope all has been well, God bless.
John UK wrote: Yes, dead to the law as a means of salvation. Yes, including "deny self, take up a cross, and follow Jesus". It is a continual dying, mortifying the flesh. We may even have to die for our faith. I don't know if that's a burden in the same way the law is a burden. OT or NT? Colossians 3:16 KJV (16)¬† Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. Kev, did you know that the "psalms, hymns and spiritual songs" all refer to Psalms 1-150? So we are to teach one another using the psalms. I'm happy to do that; how about you?
Well I had a nice long comment but it asked me to validate with something that was supposed to play but I couldn't hear anything and lost my comment. But I have somethings to do so I'm gonna call it a day.
The law that is mentioned in the Psalms is the total revealed will of God, Christ is the fulfillment of the Law.
Well you take care Bro and I never said lawless. But the Bible teaches the OT law is abolished this includes its curse and the law is a whole and not divisible this is what I've come across in my studies.
The Bible says clearly you are dead to the law. The church that is following the teaching of Christ 1 Cor 9:21. Do you turn to the Sermon on the Mount to know what God expects from you or do you turn to the OT? If the law was only a shadow of Christ. Christ has delivered the full law of God.
Moses says look and hearken unto Christ: Deuteronomy 18:15
15 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Now is the OT irrelevant? Of course not!
2 Timothy 3:16
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for INSTRUCTION in RIGHTEOUSNESS:
I don't know where you got all those things you said you will have to show me from my comment. Every time you tell what Paul clearly states in Romans 7 people start twisting things on you. Paul says he is dead to the law(the Ten Commandments in context). People who are truly born again do not make occasion for the flesh read through Romans. I like how Paul when addressing these things answers the objections just like he does in Rom 9 about election and in Rom 6:1-6-15 about law.
I don't know why when you declare something that is in the Bible people start making false constructs?