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News Item7/31/14 12:34 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
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The last I checked, the Puritans were Christian!

News Item7/28/14 4:41 PM
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question wrote:
Do you mean that you believe that some 'born again' sinners are NOT saved?
Is regeneration any part of salvation?
Born again believers are saved, but they will not inherit their salvation until Jesus returns. Salvation means someone is being saved from something. I believe we are saved from the eternal death that unbelievers will be punished with. Regeneration means someone is being brought to life. I believe this is talking about a believers spirit being brought from death to eternal life by the washing of regeneration by the Holy Spirit. Believers will be receive salvation because they have been regenerated.

News Item7/28/14 2:54 PM
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Lurker...
For the record, I don't equate regeneration with salvation. Salvation is being saved from the wrath of God and the judgement of God. The term regeneration is used once and in the verse speaks of the washing of regeneration by the Holy Spirit. I believe that means the Holy Spirit in dwells believers, placing them in Christ which makes them righteous before God and results in their eventual salvation which they now have in Christ.

News Item7/28/14 11:27 AM
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Ladybug...
I didn't mean to address you in that post, but I am glad you are willing to talk about it.
I wasn't trying to nullify regeneration by quoting 1 Tim 1:16. Paul's pattern of believing on Jesus for eternal life is our pattern. For eternal life, we must first believe.

Ephesians 1:13 NKJV

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

How did they believe? Certainly not because the Spirit was in them, making them. He doesn't seal any before faith. How did they hear? Through the preaching of the gospel which was sent by God.
I am not plucking verses out of context. Paul himself said the Corinthians were not accepting the things of God, although they were believers.
What would be the point of God giving faith to the natural person anyway? According to you, they wouldn't be able to use it anyways! If I give a baby a car to drive and they don't know how to use it and can't operate it, what would be the point? If I'm the one driving them around in it, they can't be credited with driving it themselves.


News Item7/28/14 10:43 AM
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Pennned...
Sorry, a few post ago I addressed ladybug when I ment it for you.

As far as Ephesians 2:8:

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Do you really believe the translation is that wrong and should actually read this way?

For by grace you have faith through being saved, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

It seems to me that in the real God breathed verse, being saved is the topic. His grace is why we have been saved and through faith is the means by which we receive His salvation. Anybody who has been saved, it is a gift of God given to us because of His grace and through our faith.


News Item7/28/14 10:14 AM
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II Timothy 2:1 NKJV

You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.

The unmerited favor of God isn't even shown until one is in Christ!

Romans 8:9 NKJV

But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

If one is not in Christ, then they are not His. They are not His elect or heirs. There aren't any people walking around regenerated by God apart from being in Christ and there aren't any people in Christ apart from first believing! As I pointed out in my last post, Ephesians 1:13 says it is after believing that we are sealed in Him.

II Corinthians 5:17 NKJV

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

It is not until being in Christ that one is a new creature or regenerated.


News Item7/28/14 9:39 AM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
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Ladybug...
I want to focus first on faith being prior to regeneration. Regeneration being defined, to me, as going from a state of spiritual death to eternal life.

I Timothy 1:16 NKJV

...a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.

Notice what believing is for. It is for everlasting life. So regeneration is not possible until after faith.

I Peter 1:9 NKJV

receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

Faith results in the salvation of one's soul. People are not saved and then exercise faith.

Ephesians 1:13 NKJV

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

They heard, believed, and then were sealed with the Holy Spirit.


News Item7/28/14 8:01 AM
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Lurker...
1) I'm not calling you a liar. You may sincerely believe that you don't hate the Jews. I just don't believe it.
2) Haha, you ask when have you ever asserted replacement theology and then precede to assert it! Some believers were neither Jews or Greek, such as Abel, Noah, and Job. Some were Israelite and some Gentiles.
3) Sure it does. God took Israel out of Egypt, kept the oath which He made with their forefathers. You weren't taken out of Egypt and your forefathers aren't Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
4) What I mean is, when God calls down curses on Israel you believe "Israel" is the nation and Jewish people. When God talks of blessing Israel and saving her, you all of a sudden claim that is about believers, lol.

News Item7/28/14 12:50 AM
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MS...
First of all, God's word proves the case for faith before regeneration It shows we are accountable to believe in Christ. I don't accuse people of stuff usually and was only trying to get to the core of his view that Jewish believers are not being saved yet. Talk about strange fire! Also, have you not heard him yourself say that he doesn't acknowledge Israel as God's chosen nation and the Jews as God's chosen people? Hopefully he at leadt supports their right to protect themselves against Palistinians and understands them as a sovereign nation, planted by God.

News Item7/28/14 12:34 AM
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I wish they would legalize medical Marijuana. It may prevent epilepsy and help with autism. At least study it to find out.

News Item7/28/14 12:16 AM
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Lurker wrote:
1) Falsely accused, J4J. So now your calling me a liar as well?
Your first proof of anti-Semitism:
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
2) Did it not happen exactly as both God and Jesus warned?
3)Your second proof of anti-Semitism: Provide a biblical text which bears out what was asserted which I called hogwash.
Deu 7:7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. 4) (That's Israel J4J, not just Jews)
You're in a hole, J4J. The first thing you should do is stop digging
1)I called you a liar? I believe where there is smoke, there is fire.
2) Yes, but not as you think with the Jews replaced forever. All Israel will one day call on Jesus and therefore be saved.
3) Why when you just did? lol. Deut. 7:7.
4) Funny how the curses are about the nation and the blessings about Christians!

News Item7/27/14 11:16 PM
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MS wrote:
Prove by Lurkers comments that he is antisemetic
Ball is in your court!
He has since posted that he was accused of it before. Do you suppose that is for a reason? Not to many of us have been accused of that once, much less multiple times. I'm recalling some conversations we had a couple years ago. I can't dig those up. Sorry. Stay here long enough and I'm sure you will hear for yourself. Just looking quickly, I saw this:

"Ask yourself, by what means did God write His laws, as you understand them, on the hearts of His people after He took salvation and the kingdom of God away from the Jews and gave them to Paul and the Gentiles?"

Now that is what Lurker has said. What motivates a person to believe in replacement theology? I believe it stems from hate of the Jews for killing Jesus (in their mind) and/or a jealousy of God's chosen people.

Also, this response:

"Another senseless comment:
"The Jews are Gods chosen people in the sense thst God chose them as a people to demonstrate to all mankind his love,faithfullness and goodness."
Hogwash!"

Senseless hogwash?! Maybe to someone with anti-Jewish sentiment!


News Item7/27/14 9:42 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
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John UK wrote:
Hey John, how are you getting on with loving God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind? How are you getting on loving your neighbour as yourself? I somehow thought that "all have sinned and come short".
Or do you work to a pass mark?
I'm doing perfectly in Christ. In my flesh I struggle. The only mark to pass for salvation is faith. I think your problem is that you think faith obviously merits salvation, therefore it has to be God who gives us faith. Otherwise, people would merit their own salvation, in your mind. Is that how you see it? Otherwise, why suggest if someone believes faith precedes regeneration that they think they earned their salvation by works? Scripture says faith is not a work and if faith were imputed by God, then faith is still something people must perform and therefore would still merit their salvation with God's assistance, in your view. I mean, if faith comes from God or not, it is still people who must believe. Therefore you should believe anyone who has faith has merited their salvation regardless of the source.

News Item7/27/14 8:49 PM
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To some who think I'm being nasty by saying Lurker holds some anti-Jewish sentiment, I am not. I am trying to be accurate so as to understand his position that the Jewish believers were not saved but that the Gentiles were. He has said himself that he doesn't think there is anything particularly special about and doesn't particularly like the current state of Israel.

News Item7/27/14 6:24 PM
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John UK wrote:
What utter tripe, John!
So if someone asks you, "What must I do to be saved?" you answer, "Believe in Jesus Christ." And if they want to know what believing in Jesus Christ means, you say, "It means to love God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind."
Ahem......salvation by works, without a doubt.
Mark 12:28-34 NASB
One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?" Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'Hear , O Israel! T he Lord our God is one Lord ; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." The scribe said to Him, "Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that He is One , and there is no one else besides Him ; and to love Him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as himself, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices." When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."
Jesus spoke tripe?

News Item7/27/14 10:45 AM
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Lurker...

Acts 15:11 NASB

But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."

The Jewish men were saying they were saved in the same manner as the Gentiles. Not sure why you would say the Jews weren't saved, but I can only assume it has something to do with your antisemitism or anti-Jewish sentiment.


News Item7/27/14 2:46 AM
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ladybug wrote:
1) J4J says "The gift of God, salvation by the washing of regeneration of the Holy Spirit, is given after believing!" Where is your scriptural support for this? None of the verses you cited state what you say.

2) It's amazing that you continue to quote Matthew 19:28, even after you've been shown that 'regeneration' has not one thing to do with the new birth, or faith, or whatever point it is you're trying to make. You keep trotting it out there as though it is relevant to the topic at hand.

1) Just so I understand you correctly, are you asking for scriptural support that the gift of God and the washing of regeneration is given after believing? If so, there is plenty.
2) Regeneration is relevant because of your statement, "You must be regenerated by God before you can believe...". In order to understand whether regeneration occurs prior or after faith, we must look at the two examples given. The first one in Matthew doesn't apply to faith, so it gets crossed out. The other one in Titus 3:5 only says that regeneration comes by the Holy Spirit. It doesn't say whether faith is prior or after regeneration. Therefore, where do you come up with the idea that regeneration comes before faith?

News Item7/27/14 1:35 AM
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Dorcas wrote:
1)Saving faith is a spiritual act, one who is spiritually dead cannot perform it.

2)Note carefully the order in 2 Thessalonians 2:13,"God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth".

1) Jesus says in Matthew 22:37 NASB:

"'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.'

and in Mark 12:30 NASB He says:

you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.'

So faith is an act of loving God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength and then Jesus says "you will be saved."

2) It makes sense to put the work of God ahead of our faith in this verse because "how" believers are saved is by God, not our faith. Faith precedes salvation though. Look at these verses:

1 Peter 1:9 NASB

obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

and ladybug's favorite!

Acts 11:17 NASB

Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?"

Our souls are not saved until after believing. It is the outcome of faith


News Item7/26/14 11:18 PM
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Regeneration is mentioned twice in the Bible.

Matthew 19:28 KJV

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

And here.

Titus 3:5 KJV

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

In the first example, faith obviously comes before the regeneration. In the second example, it says it is the Holy Spirit who regenerates us by the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Problem for those who believe the washing of regeneration by the Holy Spirit is done before faith. God tells us elsewhere in scripture when the Holy Spirit regenerates someone.

Acts 11:17 NASB

Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?"

The gift of God, salvation by the washing of regeneration of the Holy Spirit, is given after believing!


News Item7/26/14 12:26 PM
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Ladybug...
You said that 1 Cor. 2:14 says that people are unable to believe? Funny to doesn't say that. Let's look:

1 Corinthians 2:14 NASB

But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

All it says is that in our flesh doesn't accept the things of God. We desire things opposed to God's word such as gluttony, adultery, slothfulness, etc. As a matter of fact, Paul could not speak to these Christians about other doctrine because they were so fleshly and struggled with what he already taught them.

1 Corinthians 3:1-3 NASB

And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

They too did not accept the things of the spirit, however, they did believe!

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