It's crazy that people still believe in Darwinism in this day and age. I hope if Gungor takes Ham up on his offer to come see the museum that Ham won't really give him the star treatment and pay for his room and board while granting him total access to the staff. It would only be fair if Ham does that for everybody.
GSTexas... My point was to show that God has not forgotten about the Jews and still has a plan for them also. Which includes all of physical Israel coming to faith in their Messiah and being saved. For that to happen, there first needed to be a nation of Israel. Which there now is. I think too, they have done pretty good to try and spare innocent life in dealing with Hamas. The Palestinians are only fenced off to protect the rest of Israel from terrorist attacks. The people can freely come and go as they please through check points. It is reasonable for a nation to be able to defend themselves against attack. If innocent children get killed, who's fault is that? It seems to me the ones who started this current conflict. Funny how Egypt has a truce with Israel and everything is fine between them. Hamas constantly breaks there's and this stuff is the result of that.
But to Israel he says: â€śAll day long I have stretched out My hands To a disobedient and contrary people.â€ť
So God stretched out His hands to a disobedient and contrary Christian people? Or Israel?
Romans 11:7-8 NKJV
What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. Just as it is written: â€śGod has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day.â€ť
So God gave Christians a spirit of stupor and eyes that could not see? Or Jews?
I thought the Rockets were diverted into the sea. Why are people saying they hit hospitals? I know a hospital was hit by Israel because Hamas was shooting rockets from it. I think Israel is such a sore point to people because Mohammad said it would never exist again and it does, proving he is a false prophet. Then, on the other hand, there are "Christians" who believe Israel has been replaced by the church, but that can't be if God chose to put Israel back on the map.
question wrote: Do you mean that you believe that some 'born again' sinners are NOT saved? Is regeneration any part of salvation?
Born again believers are saved, but they will not inherit their salvation until Jesus returns. Salvation means someone is being saved from something. I believe we are saved from the eternal death that unbelievers will be punished with. Regeneration means someone is being brought to life. I believe this is talking about a believers spirit being brought from death to eternal life by the washing of regeneration by the Holy Spirit. Believers will be receive salvation because they have been regenerated.
Lurker... For the record, I don't equate regeneration with salvation. Salvation is being saved from the wrath of God and the judgement of God. The term regeneration is used once and in the verse speaks of the washing of regeneration by the Holy Spirit. I believe that means the Holy Spirit in dwells believers, placing them in Christ which makes them righteous before God and results in their eventual salvation which they now have in Christ.
Ladybug... I didn't mean to address you in that post, but I am glad you are willing to talk about it. I wasn't trying to nullify regeneration by quoting 1 Tim 1:16. Paul's pattern of believing on Jesus for eternal life is our pattern. For eternal life, we must first believe.
Ephesians 1:13 NKJV
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
How did they believe? Certainly not because the Spirit was in them, making them. He doesn't seal any before faith. How did they hear? Through the preaching of the gospel which was sent by God. I am not plucking verses out of context. Paul himself said the Corinthians were not accepting the things of God, although they were believers. What would be the point of God giving faith to the natural person anyway? According to you, they wouldn't be able to use it anyways! If I give a baby a car to drive and they don't know how to use it and can't operate it, what would be the point? If I'm the one driving them around in it, they can't be credited with driving it themselves.
Pennned... Sorry, a few post ago I addressed ladybug when I ment it for you.
As far as Ephesians 2:8:
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Do you really believe the translation is that wrong and should actually read this way?
For by grace you have faith through being saved, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
It seems to me that in the real God breathed verse, being saved is the topic. His grace is why we have been saved and through faith is the means by which we receive His salvation. Anybody who has been saved, it is a gift of God given to us because of His grace and through our faith.
You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
The unmerited favor of God isn't even shown until one is in Christ!
Romans 8:9 NKJV
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
If one is not in Christ, then they are not His. They are not His elect or heirs. There aren't any people walking around regenerated by God apart from being in Christ and there aren't any people in Christ apart from first believing! As I pointed out in my last post, Ephesians 1:13 says it is after believing that we are sealed in Him.
II Corinthians 5:17 NKJV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
It is not until being in Christ that one is a new creature or regenerated.
Lurker... 1) I'm not calling you a liar. You may sincerely believe that you don't hate the Jews. I just don't believe it. 2) Haha, you ask when have you ever asserted replacement theology and then precede to assert it! Some believers were neither Jews or Greek, such as Abel, Noah, and Job. Some were Israelite and some Gentiles. 3) Sure it does. God took Israel out of Egypt, kept the oath which He made with their forefathers. You weren't taken out of Egypt and your forefathers aren't Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. 4) What I mean is, when God calls down curses on Israel you believe "Israel" is the nation and Jewish people. When God talks of blessing Israel and saving her, you all of a sudden claim that is about believers, lol.
MS... First of all, God's word proves the case for faith before regeneration It shows we are accountable to believe in Christ. I don't accuse people of stuff usually and was only trying to get to the core of his view that Jewish believers are not being saved yet. Talk about strange fire! Also, have you not heard him yourself say that he doesn't acknowledge Israel as God's chosen nation and the Jews as God's chosen people? Hopefully he at leadt supports their right to protect themselves against Palistinians and understands them as a sovereign nation, planted by God.
Lurker wrote: 1) Falsely accused, J4J. So now your calling me a liar as well? Your first proof of anti-Semitism: Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 2) Did it not happen exactly as both God and Jesus warned? 3)Your second proof of anti-Semitism: Provide a biblical text which bears out what was asserted which I called hogwash. Deu 7:7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. 4) (That's Israel J4J, not just Jews) You're in a hole, J4J. The first thing you should do is stop digging
1)I called you a liar? I believe where there is smoke, there is fire. 2) Yes, but not as you think with the Jews replaced forever. All Israel will one day call on Jesus and therefore be saved. 3) Why when you just did? lol. Deut. 7:7. 4) Funny how the curses are about the nation and the blessings about Christians!
MS wrote: Prove by Lurkers comments that he is antisemetic Ball is in your court!
He has since posted that he was accused of it before. Do you suppose that is for a reason? Not to many of us have been accused of that once, much less multiple times. I'm recalling some conversations we had a couple years ago. I can't dig those up. Sorry. Stay here long enough and I'm sure you will hear for yourself. Just looking quickly, I saw this:
"Ask yourself, by what means did God write His laws, as you understand them, on the hearts of His people after He took salvation and the kingdom of God away from the Jews and gave them to Paul and the Gentiles?"
Now that is what Lurker has said. What motivates a person to believe in replacement theology? I believe it stems from hate of the Jews for killing Jesus (in their mind) and/or a jealousy of God's chosen people.
Also, this response:
"Another senseless comment: "The Jews are Gods chosen people in the sense thst God chose them as a people to demonstrate to all mankind his love,faithfullness and goodness." Hogwash!"
Senseless hogwash?! Maybe to someone with anti-Jewish sentiment!
John UK wrote: Hey John, how are you getting on with loving God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind? How are you getting on loving your neighbour as yourself? I somehow thought that "all have sinned and come short". Or do you work to a pass mark?
I'm doing perfectly in Christ. In my flesh I struggle. The only mark to pass for salvation is faith. I think your problem is that you think faith obviously merits salvation, therefore it has to be God who gives us faith. Otherwise, people would merit their own salvation, in your mind. Is that how you see it? Otherwise, why suggest if someone believes faith precedes regeneration that they think they earned their salvation by works? Scripture says faith is not a work and if faith were imputed by God, then faith is still something people must perform and therefore would still merit their salvation with God's assistance, in your view. I mean, if faith comes from God or not, it is still people who must believe. Therefore you should believe anyone who has faith has merited their salvation regardless of the source.
To some who think I'm being nasty by saying Lurker holds some anti-Jewish sentiment, I am not. I am trying to be accurate so as to understand his position that the Jewish believers were not saved but that the Gentiles were. He has said himself that he doesn't think there is anything particularly special about and doesn't particularly like the current state of Israel.
John UK wrote: What utter tripe, John! So if someone asks you, "What must I do to be saved?" you answer, "Believe in Jesus Christ." And if they want to know what believing in Jesus Christ means, you say, "It means to love God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind." Ahem......salvation by works, without a doubt.
Mark 12:28-34 NASB One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?" Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'Hear , O Israel! T he Lord our God is one Lord ; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." The scribe said to Him, "Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that He is One , and there is no one else besides Him ; and to love Him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as himself, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices." When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." Jesus spoke tripe?