MS wrote: "The baptismal font is a mockery and an imposition if it be put before Christ. If you have baptism after you have come to Christ, well and good, but to point you to it either as being Christ, or as being inevitably connected with Christ, or as being the place to find Christ, is nothing better than to go back to the beggarly elements of the old romish harlot, instead of standing in the "liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free," and bidding the sinner to come as a sinner to Christ Jesus, and to Christ Jesus alone". Spurgeon
Thank you MS for posting this clip. Wow, what a Spirit-filled man was Mr Spurgeon, to have such a way with words and spiritual understanding. Truly raised up by God to be a Prince of Preachers, and read by countless men and women around the world as their daily devotions. always helpful, and a great gift to the Church, an encourager, and one who points always to Jesus Christ.
Michael Hranek wrote: Saint John UK Wales This is only a consideration but it seems that Unregenerate Roman Calvinists would be blind to the Sovereignty of God in seeing God bring His supernatural work to save someone who is lost lived out openly and publically before their very eyes Somehow they've gotten themselves way confused, and spread a heap of that confusion to others, essentially denying that the True and Living God actually does save sinners, and when they are saved, born again of the Holy Spirit they are far different than a religiously indoctrinated man (aka Protestant Pharisee or Roman Calvinist if you will), but even as the Bible says a new creature in Christ And worse being so indoctrinate and so confused end up hating the very truth of the genuine Gosopel of Jesus Christ that would save them, set them free and bless them for all eternity
Brother Saint Michael,
It really does seem that way.
Just goes to prove total depravity, as nothing we say seems to have any effect.
Frank wrote: A great comment Pilgrim and I really enjoyed all the rest; especially the one by Polly want a cracker. I can picture JohnY standing before the Lord on judgment day and bringing up Luther's name or his non-denominational brother in law's name. Now if the Holy Spirit guided Luther regarding his view of catholicism, then why do 99.9 percent of us think they are a cult. Don't we have the Holy Spirit as well. So, JohnUK I agree with your thought that a man must be born again and if they are, they will come out from among them. And if we had Luther with us today, we could question him about his views or some of his statements. But, since we don't have him around any more, we will simply use the "word of the living God".
I wonder why Gen 17 seems unable to answer even the simplest of questions, namely, when a sinner comes into his church, hears the word of God preached, believes it, repents of his sins, and calls on the name of the Lord and is saved, what does the church do about his baptism?
1517 wrote: John, Just read this a few minutes ago: "Reader, have you come to "the sprinkled blood"? The question is not whether you have come to a knowledge of doctrine or an observance of ceremonies or to a certain form of experience, but have you come to the blood of Jesus?" Spurgeon
Ah yes 1517. This is just one reason I so appreciate Spurgeon, he always calls sinners to the blood of Christ as the only way of salvation.
John Yurich USA wrote: If the Holy Spirit believes the RCC is a Cult then don't you think He would have guided Luther to believe the RCC is a Cult? But Luther was under the guidance of the Holy Spirit to believe the RCC is not a Cult.
Why do you make Luther your authority? NO MAN should have authority over you, except the MAN CHRIST JESUS. This is why......
YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN
When sinners are converted, they ALL come OUT of the RCC (Roman Catholic Cult).
1517 wrote: John, The church has lost it's influence because it, consciously or not, has catergorized life instead of starting at the foundation (God in Christ as Creator, who is THERE and not a set of principles) and viewing life accordingly. Our life isn't "Work life", "Home life", "Social life", "Political life"; it is Life under Heaven with God in Christ; Sovereign, immovable, unchanging, full of Love and Grace, Holiness and Justice. We have suppressed this reality. What a dismal existence to think Man is all there is to determine what is life, purpose, and destiny.
1517, Yes, I think I can agree with all that, as far as I can understand the scholarly terminology.
Is it a bit like the church, which although regenerate, could possibly be compared to those religious who, having a form of godliness, yet deny the power thereof? I was talking about this very thing last night, being concerned that "going though the motions", say, of a worship service, can be done "without God", even with good preaching (lecturing) and an ordered meeting.
1517 wrote: The three main items to keep in mind when reading this article: 1. It's The Atlantic 2. The social relevance as it relates to homosexuality and changing cultural norms 3. The woman author of the book What "Millenials" need is a Francis Schaeffer, L'Abri para-church approach. The church needs to connect people's lives with the everyday reality of God "who is there and not silent". The "darkness" is the inability of this generation to grasp existential and moral absolutes. That a philosophical perspective starting with Man is insufficient to deal with the fallenness and corrupt nature of man and his place, purpose, and destiny. Western Christianity IS declining because it would forsake natural revelation (philosophy, logic, reason), water down and confuse special revelation ( God's Word) and embrace "issues" and "values" over unchanging, universal truth.
1517, I liked the sound of your post, although it was too highbrow for me to understand. Any chance of putting some meat on it, in more layman's terms?
Michael Hranek wrote: Brother Saint John UK Wales Wow! Is this for real? Do the Roman CALVINISTS actually imagine they can grant entrance or deny it to anyone? That so sounds like the Roman Catholic (False) Church that imagines they have the power of excommunication to damn those who don't bow to their perverted/twisted false version of Christianity, like Bible Believing Born Again of the Holy Spirit Baptists to hell forever? I wonder if we could say something like "O Geneva, Geneva" you were so wise in your own eyes and so blind to the children of God you drown in mockery of Believer's Baptism"
Yep, it's for real. Which is why the WCF folks really ought to be called Roman Calvinists, as you so aptly describe them.
It's in the small print which adds to the word of God "censures" and "absolution from censures". I still can't get any answer as to how they evaluate in order to get to "censures" or how they evaluate in order to get to "absolution from censures", except it be by interview.
I wonder if they allow sisters to pray in the prayer meeting. (just an aside)
Gen17 wrote: "Babies" are included in the covenant and church of God...
Who's talking about babies? Not I.
Let's see now, if a FULLY GROWN SINNER comes in your church one Sunday morning, hears the word of God preached, believes it, repents of his sins and puts his trust in Jesus Christ, what will you do with him? Baptise him without an interview? Just simply make a profession of faith and baptism follows without a word?
Gen17 wrote: John. WCF chapter 30 is about discipline in the church - not about access to Christ by HIS witness. Dictionary:- "Censure" - 1. strong or vehement expression of disapproval: 2. an official reprimand, as by a legislative body of one of its members. Your Baptist church "interview" and of course baptism ceremony is not of censure but of human sacrament celebrating the sign of the Covenant of Grace.
Sure, baptism is an ordinance of God, and any who have truly repented of their sins ought to be baptised in obedience to Christ and his commission.
So if a sinner comes in your WCF church and hears the word of God, and afterwards professes to believe the word and to have repented, do you then baptise them without interview?
Gen17 wrote: Yeah. And the poor old Reformed Church simply puts their trust in God and HIS Holy Word.
I think you'll find that according to the wcf, professions have to be checked.
wcf chapter 30 1. The Lord Jesus, as king and head of His Church, has therein appointed a government, in the hand of Church officers, distinct from the civil magistrate. 2. To these officers the keys of the kingdom of heaven are committed; by virtue whereof, they have power, respectively, to retain, and remit sins; to shut that kingdom against the impenitent, both by the Word, and censures; and to open it unto penitent sinners, by the ministry of the Gospel; and by absolution from censures, as occasion shall require.
Now if you can tell me how the church officers can tell without interview whether or not a person is truly penitent or not, I would be very grateful. Thank you very much.
SteveR wrote: Answering Churches that adhere to traditional Reformed Catechisms and Confessions with a response like that is one of the reasons you so often get lumped in with the unholy trinity here. I do appreciate the comedy of you thinking pastors know what each of their members believe, when you are in your own little world of false theology. I appreciate, because its more funny than fiction....you cant make up your special type of foolishness
Well that's the difference between Baptist churches and Reformed churches. A Baptist pastor or his elders will interview a candidate for baptism and church membership, seeking to ensure a regenerate membership. If you've never come across that, you ought to check it out.
Now your buddy John Yurich, if he came to your church seeking church membership, what would he get? "Oh, hello, here's an Arminian trying to get into the church, an easy believist convert "a la Billy Graham". Repeat this prayer after me and you are now a Christian, go tell someone."
Oh but that's fine with SteveR, he's all into Arminian doctrine and practice, and anathematising the true believers who believe in God's sovereignty.
SteveR wrote: Tsk tsk For the years I have known you, you have exhibited a complete inability to understand the Biblical doctrines in the Reformed Tradition, all the while pretending to be a Reformed Christian. Then to embarrass yourself further, you claim all Pastors know what their members believe, when you yourself can not grasp the very basics of Reformed Theology while attending a Reformed Church
Ha! Poor Steve, you HAVE been on the bottle.
The very first Bible Study I ever took was on the subject of tulip, as a young Christian in the early 80's.
Nowadays, I think there are more important things to do than to continually repeat the same old, same old, things over and over and over.
Now Steve, if you REALLY want to understand God's purposes in election and in his sovereign will, you first have to understand the dreadful estate of your soul, being dead in sins and nature's night, and your great need of God's grace in quickening and enlightening and convicting of sin and converting your soul. In other words.....
SteveR wrote: Are you this lost? TULIP is the term used to describe the affirmation of Biblical Doctrine at the Synod of Dordt. Despite the London Confession being your stated doctrine, you still dont understand TULIP? There is even a poster here on SA that tries to explain it you, and all you do is mock these basic Reformed Doctrines
Eh? The man's mad.
I've always been a Flower Power man. Ask anyone here. Steve, you been on the bottle again?