Frank wrote: Well John, I would disagree with your above comment. You not only supported BG who is probably the greatest counterfeit who has ever lived; certainly in our modern times, but you greatly insulted those that disagreed with you, in spite of their excellent arguments against his ministry. If you want to say you were wrong,simply say it and don't manipulate by giving a false view of what you really said and obviously the way you view him and others like him. I truly just don't want others, who didn't follow the BG threads to be confused by your semi-flip flopping.
Frank, I'm off your ignore list? PTL.
Now: 1. How have I "supported" BG? 2. How have I "insulted" people? 3. What did I say which was wrong? 4. How am I manipulating? 5. How am I giving a "false view"? 6. How am I semi-flip-flopping?
Brother, you are in grievous error for accusing me of such things. It is you needs to say you were wrong, not I. Tell you what, pick any of the above and prove your point from any of my posts, and if I was wrong, I will say so. But if you go back into ignore mode and refuse to call me out, then know that it speaks volumes about your accusations.
penny wrote: it is the best news ever, and that should be the topic of conversation.
Too true, Penny. But some folks, I don't know what's wrong with them, but you just can't get them to talk about Jesus and about their wonderful experience of him. It could be they don't know him yet. So they just spend all their life arguing with Christians, especially those who are opposed to Catholicism.
John Yurich USA wrote: You are implying that Graham preaches a false gospel if you are against Graham's Crusades.
Not necessarily, John. I quite like BG's preaching at crusades. But there are certain aspects of his crusades which I strongly disagree with, and for that reason, as I said, I don't have any truck with him or with crusade meetings.
Advent day wrote: Yet you'd gladly send the unconverted to one of his crusades so that God can save them?!
Man oh man, I've never sent anyone to a crusade meeting in my whole life. And what's more I never would. You are gravely mistaken, sadly ignorant, or both. Which is it?
John Yurich USA wrote: John UK, You really do need psychological evaluation to believe that Graham preaches a false gospel. Graham preaches that salvation comes only through embracing Jesus as ones Savior and trusting in Him alone for salvation.
John, I never said that. I do wish people would read posts instead of reading into them what they would like, so that they can have an argument.
Dorcas wrote: John Uk, We may disagree concerning BG, but on pagan festivals, unscriptural practices, etc. brought into the corporate worship assemblies, I stand with you 100%.
Thank you Dorcas.
Besides, you won't find me inviting any BG lookalikes into the corporate worship assembly here, as I have no truck with any ecumenists, rather I rebuke the ones I meet for being traitors to the cause, holding hands with popish monsters et al. I've had no end of trouble for years because of holding a firm stance on that. But hey ho, it's par for the course, walking the narrow road which leads to life. ____________
Souza, thanks for sharing that. It will not be easy to walk the new road God has set you on, but know that as you are honouring HIM, he will surely honour you for taking a stand on that revelation. As you may have noticed, we shall be called all sorts of things for obeying God from his word, even being called a Pharisee. But that's okay, we just have to accept that some are presently ignorant, and pray for them to come into a better place, where obeying God takes precedent over being politically correct.
Advent day wrote: Really? What sources did they use to establish this fiction? But, and even if they could establish this as fact, so what? Its pagan association has long since been lost, except to the Pharisees on this board.
Do some research, and eventually, as you come to know God and his ordinations, you will be of a different mind. You can only go by your current knowledge, which obviously you are doing. That's okay, but firstly you need to understand what the Bible is, and how we are to relate to it. _____________
Mike, I did check, but I couldn't find any biblical precedent to celebrate anyone's birthday, even mine own, let alone Mr Cromwell's.
"Secular sources and the media make no secret of its history, which can be traced from ancient idolatry, through its adoption by the Papacy, to its present incorporation in the so-called 'Christian calendar'. Who can speak of 'Reformation' when these Rome-promoted feasts persist unchecked? That such rampant heathenism could become entangled with the most precious elements of the Faith is a master-stroke of the Devil. That it continues to pollute the worship of God in this annual celebration is an indictment upon the Church. For "what agreement hath the temple of God with idols"? 2 Cor 6:16. None whatsoever!"
"God in his sovereign purposes ordained the death and resurrection of his only-begotten Son. He has also appointed the means whereby these two wondrous events are kept in perpetual remembrance. Let the dictates of God be faithfully observed - and all the inventions of man be totally rejected." The Link
"It is troubling to note that in this present generation, the Lord's Day and the Lord's Supper are gravely imperilled through neglect and disobedience in the Church at large. Sanctifying the Sabbath and 'keeping it holy' is a process practically unheard of. Very few seem to realise the true import of the Lord's Day, (as a testimony to Christ's resurrection past, an opportunity for spiritual resurrection in the present, and a pledge of general resurrection yet to come). The Communion service too, is often found relegated to an infrequent formality, characterised by hollow superstitious ritual, or deprived of its symbolism by modern gimmickry. Connection with the two awesome events, for whose remembrance these ordinances are appointed, is being dangerously eroded."
"By sad and ironic contrast, many Christians will gladly devote their energies to another, entirely alien festival, by which they claim to celebrate the Lord's death and rising again. It is nowhere to be found in scripture, but gives proof to its origins in its name - Easter, derived from Astarte - a supposed goddess of fertility." The Link
Christopher000 wrote: Hi Michael, from what I've learned over the years, many born again, religious, etc, prisoners who "find God" in prison are only born again as long as they are incarcerated and being controlled. A high number of these have still murdered or attacked while in prison after claiming to be born again, or whatever, and even more seem to forget about their conversion once released as they fall back into their deviant ways. Sure, there are genuine conversions, but I always wonder who is true blue and only "born again" while within the confines of concrete walls and under the control of others who keep them from fulfilling their true desires....some permantly, some for a time. Just thinking out loud because I have seen so many cases of claims of rebirth, only to be released to rob, rape, and kill once again.
I'm sure you're right, Christopher, as there are many perks for a criminal going religious. However, one of my own spiritual fathers was converted while in Dartmoor prison for armed robbery. When he got out he used to speak at "Christian Police Association" meetings, and opened up his home to young ex-offenders and helped them back into normal life. So it can happen.
Christopher000 wrote: Good morning, John UK...I have to say that I always liked the smell of those smokey pots. If I knew what they used, I'd but some for the house. I suppose I'll be hearing about that now. : )
Good morning Christopher. I expect it is a concoction of magic mushrooms, valerian, and poppy. That would explain the glazed smile from those in the first few pews. Gotta keep the faithful happy.
John Yurich USA wrote: So the Holy Spirit does not consider the entire Mass to be unscriptural or He would not have guided Luther to retain the Mass in the Lutheran Church.
If the Mass is scriptural, John, where in the scripture do you find the word Mass? And where do you find the swinging about of smokey pots? And where do you find the fine robes? And where do you find the priests? And where do you find altar boys? And where do you find transubstantiation?
In 1647, The English Parliament passed a law that made Christmas illegal. Christmas festivities were banned by Puritan leader Oliver Cromwell, who considered feasting and revelry on what was suppose to be a holy day to be immoral. Anyone caught celebrating was arrested. The ban was only lifted when the Puritans lost power in 1660. However, the Puritans in America banned Christmas between 1659 and 1681.
How far the Reformed have fallen. I wonder what confession the Christmass supporters adhere to.
If the word "Christmas" is abominable? If? If? Where do you think the word came from? Certainly not from the Bible. Let me see now...oh yes.... from Christ's Mass, a RCC invention. Do you disagree? Hmmm?
The Great Protestant Reformation never did take enough out of the cupboard and destroy it. Far too much tradition and false teachings carried on to permeate certain denominations, including baby baptisms, saints days, liturgy, professional clergy, candles, vestments, pomp and ceremonies, unbiblical festivals, and a whole lot of things which never ought to be found in a Christian Church.
Rome tried to gain the losses back through persecution, killing those who sought to bring the Bible into the hand of the ploughboy and let him read it for himself. But the Romish murderers failed to do so, and so they go to work on dissenters more subtly nowadays, trying to convince men either that the Bible cannot be trusted enough for Sola Scriptura, or they translate modern Bibles with things missing, or they encourage ecumenism, thus hoping to destroy the true gospel of God's grace in Christ etc etc.
Look at the folks on this board who will not provide a scripture for this abominable "festival". Not one text, anywhere. Lost the plot? Aye!
Unprofitable Servant wrote: Hey John UK, trust all is well. I would rejoice that many would hear the gospel, not sure where your going with this. I certainly would much rather they gathered under the preaching of Whitfield than Wesley but God used both to bring many into His kingdom. My thoughts were expressed much earlier on Dr. Graham and have not changed, I don't think I was contentious about it.
Thank you Bro US, all is well here, and I trust is with you also.
Yes, you have opined, quite rightly, that the incarnation of God ought to be celebrated, with singing and good Bible teaching, even a special service to that end. I would like to see this event occur much closer to the birthday of Jesus, say mid-October. My contention is only with "Christmas", for which I can find no biblical warrant whatsoever.
Dolores, it is a great shame that Jesus rarely gets what he wants from his people, their whole heart loving and serving him, wholeheartedly devoted to him. What do we celebrate? A birthday? Whose birthday?
Mr Anonymous, you are a very bad man, for telling such gross lies, and for trying to keep Protestants glued to Rome. The Reformation removed some things from the cupboard, and others put them back.
Unprofitable Servant wrote: John UK the people who salve their conscious with celebrations this time of year don't stop the other eleven months. Here in the states people flock to churches at this time and Easter and think they are doing God a favor. The bright side being, they are put, in evangelistic churches, under the sound of the gospel.
Well, Saint US, does this not happen at every crusade meeting? That sinners of all shapes and sizes are happy to come to a crusade, but will not normally attend a church? Is that pragmatism or biblical reasoning?
Mike wrote: PTL, soon our religious indignation might redirect to Billy Graham
Well Saint Mike, all the ecumenist churches celebrate Christmas with great gusto, why not the little remnant? And if we're not going to use the Bible (God's instructions) as our Guide, why shouldn't the little remnant join the Ecumenical Movement and go with the flow, instead of being a thorn in the side of Rome?
I wonder if it would be right to say that "Christmas" is an entity with a voice? I think so. It bears witness. It is an encouragement to believe in a fantasy, where all men are nice people really, they just need to bring it out. It says that we are not sinners needing a Saviour, we just need to sing those lovely carols and have good will toward all men. It tells us to ignore those wretched evangelicals who tell us we are sinners bound for hell. It delights in Father Christmas rather than the Almighty God with whom we have to do. Ah yes, this is the true religion, a nicey-nicey, goody-goody religion, where everyone is fine. This is the gospel of "Christmas".
Is there pressure to submit to this "Christmas gospel"? Of course. The pressure is everywhere. If you do not go along with it, you are cast out as an unclean thing, you are portrayed as a "Bah, Humbug" type person, a real misery guts. And thus, the poor believer who does not allow himself to get embroiled in the humanistic thinking and hypocrisy, even though he is the one who loves God, serves and worships him, is rejected out of hand, because he is in the minority, that is, a "remnant" of a "harsh religion" which has no place in the modern world.
Rodney K. wrote: So, where do we draw the line. It is something I wrestle with every year. It is one thing to rail again Christmas here in near-anonymity on SA, it is another thing to live it out in real life. I'm just wondering how you deal with it practically. What advice would you give to someone newly embracing your view?
You ask a very good question, one which is not easy to answer.
It is harder for you than me, because you have family, in-laws etc. You will have read in the OT how that Jehovah warned his people time and time again not to intermarry with the heathen, because they would turn their hearts away from him, even to the degree of having idols in the house, maybe even bowing down to them and worshipping them. There is always a thin end of the wedge. And many times, this warning was ignored, and Jehovah came in judgment upon even his own people.
Nadab and Abihu were struck down for ignoring instructions of worship. Another was killed for touching the ark of the covenant. I think these were examples of how seriously God takes things, while we are so indifferent.
I would say, continue to research, and when fully convinced, act accordingly as if your life depended on it.