Well if you wish, I shall prove that the Levitical priesthood was everlasting (not!), that the Passover was forever (not!) and that the covenant made with Abraham was not the covenant of grace.
The reason you have a problem with this subject is because not all Abraham's children were saved. This is the real issue which you avoid like the plague. Salvation came to Abraham because he was chosen. Salvation came to Isaac because he was chosen. And what of all the other children? You work it out.
Now you say: "Everlasting is always and forever whether you read it in the Hebrew or the English." Not so, and if you keep on I shall have to prove it to you. Was the Levitical priesthood a type for something in the new covenant?
seeking truth wrote: So again the question John, Lurker, Ups, Mike - Do you believe God lied?
No, I do not believe God lied. What a ridiculous thing to ask.
But you see, current Jews do not believe God lied either, which is partly why they are still Jews today. God's instructions to them in the OT have to be properly understood, else they will imagine certain things are still ongoing, such as Passover etc.
The new covenant made the old obsolete and finished. Ever wonder why the extant Jews have a hard time with that? If we only had the old testament, I could make a strong case for continuation.
So again the question - What were the names of Abraham's children (sons and daughters) and how many of them were in the covenant of grace and now in heaven? (clue, think "children of promise").
SteveR wrote: Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Genesis 17:7-9 KJV 7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. 9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
court wrote: So what you are saying John is that you believe God to have been lying in the original precepts of the Abrahamic Covenant? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ btw Yom Kippur "But in describing the process by which God granted the people of Israel forgiveness for their sins (through an annual ceremony of sacrifice), it very directly foreshadows the manner in which Jesus Christ would one day sacrifice himself for our sins." http://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2011/10/yom-kippur-the-day-of-atonement/
Actually I was wondering not saying. And to ask if I thought that God was lying is most offensive and derogatory. You should be ashamed of yourself. But since you bring it up, all the OT civil and ceremonial/sacrificial law was abolished by Jesus Christ, so they could not have been everlasting, could they?
The OT is full of types of Christ, including the Day of Atonement. Both the Lord's goat and the Scapegoat are pictures of Christ himself.
Now tell me, what was the immediate seed of Abraham during his lifetime, and were they all partakers of the covenant of grace and currently in heaven? Thank you.
Lurker wrote: Not to draw attention away from SF's announcement, but it seems I hold a minority view regarding the upcoming movies "Son of God" and "Noah". I can cope with that.
I rather think we can observe history and see that our Lord has made use of all sorts of things in drawing sinners to Christ, bro. I have personally watched some creationist films which greatly enhanced my thinking of the awesomeness of God and what he has done. Obviously, it is the preaching of the gospel which finally brings men into his kingdom through the new birth and conviction of sin, but I see no fault in preparing hearts that peradventure they may become softened and ready for the seed of the word.
Barry from KY wrote: John UK. As construction starts I'll share my email address with you and send pics if you'd like. Thomas the Doubter, that is awesome you having family here in Williamstown, Mr. B used to live in this area as well. I can't wait till they start construction. It's very exciting for us. We are a small community. I was talking with the mayor of Williamstown just this Friday and he showed me plans of the entire layout of the park. It's going to be fun to watch the progress.
Hey Barry, that's real thoughtful of you bro, I would be thrilled to see the pics. I might even do a watercolour painting of the finished product.
Dorcas wrote: A Blessed Lords Day...Dolores, You can not go wrong reading J.C Ryle...he has blessed me so much over the years, His writings on the four Gospels of NT plus his wonderful book "Holiness" I would highly recommend!
Yep! One of the most warm-hearted preachers ever raised up by the Lord!
Strat wrote: I am opposed to anything or anyone who claims they have a better way to proclaim the gospel or acknowledge the existence of God than the bible describes...if apoligetics can be defined as man's amendment to the word of God then yes I oppose it,the act of amendment suggest equality and a form of democracy that man's words are equal to God's.....they are not and the bible is the only word that will survive in the end. God has said he will not share his glory with anyone,part of his glory is his eternal word....any amendments,adjustments,additions or subtractions will,as the bible states bring judgment.....men and women will come to God in God's way and not man's way and God alone receives the glory. Man's ego will not let him accept that hearing the plain true gospel and accepting or rejecting it is all there is to it,he also cannot accept that God is the one who places in the heart the desire to accept the gospel when it is heard,and that he does so based on his soverign will and that he knows the past,present and future of us all.
Not sure I understood that, but thanks for the lengthy response which I think I agree with.
Strat wrote: Why post only part of what I said,i said that man has had all the bible says he needs to recognize and acknowledge God as creator and saviour,the idea that not only does man need more evidence but that he can create it himself has led to a man centered religion and not Christ centered Christianity with man and HIS creations on display and not the simple,unadorned,non technical,non techicolor simplicity of the gospel. The bible plainly says that man fails to acknowledge God,refuses to acknowledge God and that because of that he has turned people over to a reprobabte mind...so now man is going to redeem himself by creating an image and an object that will cause him to acknowledge God.....please.
Excuse me butting in, but this has also been my argument against apologetics. I take it you are opposed to apologetics as well, Strat.
james19 wrote: We as christians should stand up and let everyone know there are sect's that just arn't christian. mormon, catholic, ect.
Agree James. In fact, I think it would be wise for every local church to have regular meetings designed to expose these cults and explain why they are so dangerous. The saints need to be aware of these things.
Michael Hranek wrote: John UK I trust I can have peaceable disagreement with both you and Observer regarding PreMill vs Amill & Postmill interpretations and any discussion we might have Still your post to me is illustrative of how one's interpretation of Biblical prophecy will affect their attitudes and mindset...
Bro, I am not one holding to any one position, but am still learning and groaning, so yes, we may have disagreements in a peaceable manner, no problem. Indeed my own pioneering "pastor" takes Spurgeon's position on this matter, but so far has not preached on it. I keep an open mind.
My post only asked a question, so how you think it is illustrative of anything is beyond me. Perhaps you thought it was rhetorical? Not at all, it was a genuine question for which I need an answer. If we take the text as literal, then it is Babylon we must come out of. But if "Babylon" is representative of something, I need to know what that something is. This will apply to the "thousand years" also, methinks.
Michael Hranek wrote: John UK Wales Just considering a bit here with the question: Does a Amill or Postmill interpretation of Prophecy cause, or is a contributing factor to, some to imagine the command of God in Revelation to His people to, 'Come out of her, My People' is not valid for today, because somehow to them it is already fulfilled in the past, maybe even in the "Reformation" and doesn't need to be taken literally today..
Mornin' Michael. Come out of what? The great city Babylon?
Revelation 18:2-4 KJV 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen [Isaiah 21:9], and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.