Michael Hranek wrote: Brother Saint John UK Wales If I am remembering correctly even our Lord Jesus Christ who "blistered" the Pharisees where they needed it, and instructed the disciples to beware of their leaven, never commanded them to hate them
Good morning dear brother. Yes I agree with your last three posts.
I remember in the 80's when BG was holding crusades in the UK. My church elders met to decide what we as a church ought to do, regarding involvement. Because of the ecumenism thing they decided not to be involved at all. At the time, I did not understand why, nor what was wrong with the ecumenical movement, but I was a young Christian then, and did not see it till much later. But the church had its own extensive evangelism, being very concerned to obey the Great Commission. I miss that.
Since then, many is the time I have stood alone in town centres to preach the gospel, while the rest of God's people were ensconced in holy huddles agreeing among themselves who the greatest heretics were, puffing themselves up yet doing nothing to reach the lost sinner with the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ. They would say things like, "God will save his elect, don't worry about it."
Ian Paisley, Northern Irelandâ€™s former first minister and former Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) leader died September 12 in Belfast at the age of 88. He is survived by his wife Eileen, his five children and grandchildren. Ian Paisley was a powerful politician and a towering figure in the Northern Irish peace process, following decades of conflict.
But most important, he was a preacher of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. While I was preaching in Belfast, Ireland in 2008 he invited me to his office. He was a man of deep conviction and great boldness. His leadership will be greatly missed.
When Ian Paisley once spoke of death he said, â€śAs Christians we leap not into darkness; rather we leap into the Light and the sunshine from the Light will never go out.â€ť I know his family will find great comfort in these words. My prayers are with them.
The hope which is laid up for you in heavenâ€¦has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit (Colossians 1:5).
Franklin Graham http://billygraham.org/story/franklin-graham-statement-on-death-of-ian-paisley/ ______
Great comments from everyone! It is a good opportunity to be longsuffering and gracious. I see that Franklin says of Ian Paisley that he "preached the gospel".
Mike wrote: First we must define evil. I'll have a go. It's like the cartoon character said: Evil is bad, good isn't.
Not bad, Mike, quite good even.
Now tell me brother. If you have listened to Billy Graham's preaching at his crusades, which I expect would have been televised in America, have you ever come across anything in those gospel messages which could be described as "bad"? I'm thinking now of his presentation of Christ Jesus as the Saviour of sinners, and his work on the cross as the sinner's substitute, being the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world. Secondly Mike, can you remember any time when he preached anything at those crusades which could be defined as "Roman Catholic" doctrine?
Isn't it great that there is still "Freedom of Speech" in the West, while in many countries they do not have such freedoms? Mind you, some militant neo-Calviniums would bring us all back to that Scottish idea of physically enforcing all to be "Christians" (i.e. Calviniums), even to the degree of persecuting those who disagree and voice it, much in the same way that the RCC would burn books, and burn men who disagreed with the popish bulls and "way of salvation".
Michael Hranek wrote: John UK Useful consideration How ought we to treat those genuinely converted in BGEA crusades or other events
Brother Saint Michael, you have raised a most important question. So important that the Lord Jesus would have us know the answer and apply it, lest we be found both fighting against him, and causing upset and confusion in baby Christians. We have to understand both the working of Jesus Christ in the world, and through whom he is working (his servants), and we need to be sensitive and understand the present needs of the babe in Christ, no matter through whom God called them to himself.
I remember as a very young Christian being given an LP record of preaching by a man called T.L. Osborn. It had only been in my possession about a day, and I hadn't even listened to it, but an elder and two others came from the church and served me with a Matthew 18:15-17. I hadn't a clue what they were talking about, I didn't know what was wrong with this preacher, and it was very scary. Besides which, they didn't serve the Matt 18 correctly, or only one would have come round to see me. What on earth were they thinking of! Scary stuff!
Frank wrote: Well Pilgrim, you have now stepped over the line. My comment about caring less only concerned itself with BG crusades and not those who were converted. Your opinion of me speaks volumes. No response is necessary. I do forgive you though!
Thanks Pilgrim for your forgiveness. Your concern is for the methods and associates of BG, my concern is for the Lord Jesus Christ and how he is going to call sinners to himself. In this we differ.
Now in the real world, let us keep you happy and ensure that the only preachers permitted to go gospelling throughout the world are 4 point Calviniums.
Now, having established that, how many gospel messages do you think will be heard in the course of one day, let us say, on December 25th? Hmmmm? I mean, throughout the whole world. Not just in Nebraska.
Alas, not many, eh?
And how many 4pt Calviniums will you find in heaven? Compared to say, BG converts?
Oh well, hey ho. I'm always glad of friends who stick, rather than those who become unstuck every time there is a disagreement. The scriptural principle is: "We know that we have passed from death to life because we love the brethren." So lots of love to you and your house, bro.
Frank wrote: With that thought in mind, I am strongly against BG and his crusades and I could care less whether God used him to bring folks to Christ or not.
Dear Frank, these are terrible words, brother.
The Lord Jesus is receiving sinners to himself, all over the world, through so many different ways that it would be impossible to list them all here; receiving sinners, that is, those for whom he died and rose again, he is seeing of the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied, he calls them lovingly and powerfully, he has loved them with an everlasting love, and they are our brothers and sisters throughout the world, but because they were converted at a crusade meeting, you don't really care less, you would try to persuade them to "deny that heretic" in the pulpit through whom Jesus called them????????!!!!!!
Try giving them a hug and exclaiming, "Praise God! Another trophy of God's grace! Another brand plucked from the burning!"
Has Christianity become so cold to you, that you are hardened to the feelings of your brethren and sisters who are truly converted?
Maybe we should look at what true conversion is, and what it is not?
Frank wrote: Thanks ladybug and dorcas! I am completely bewildered how these folks can say what they are saying. When confronted by doing evil (BG's crusades) so that good could come (those who were converted through them) Paul said this.
Who mentioned Billy Graham? Not me.
Now then, Pilgrim, my friend and brother, you do realise that "the Reformed" have Crusades, don't you? Only they don't call them crusades, but conferences and such like. The word of God is preached, sometimes geared towards young people, and God sovereignly saves some. Where's the problem?
And what's all this about a universal atonement? Does everybody here hold to such arminium doctrine?
Mike wrote: You got it right, John. Some of those "calviniums" think to hold high God's sovereignty, but don't allow him such sovereignty to work any way he wishes without accountability to religious theories. Which such non-accountability to men is the very definition of sovereignty.
Saint Mike, I love to hear testimonies of conversion, and I pay much attention. If a lot of folks were to testify to their coming to know the Saviour, and how it happened, the Calviniums would be highly embarrassed and hide behind their WCF catechismics for fear of God.
Michael Hranek wrote: Brother Saint John UK Wales Grace and Peace to you in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ who died and rose again for us. Wow! I am genuinely amazed how some people refuse to get it.
When the Beauty and Wonder of Yeshua The Messiah, the doings of the Living God to save people like us literally pours from the Words of Scripture, and is made real and alive in us (real faith) by the Holy Spirit. And can we say Sealed with His Spirit, Blood and Word. God's thoughts and ways are certainly and infinitely higher than ours, and may we pour out our hearts in thanking Him that in His grace we can walk and grow up more and more into them
Ah yes, Saint Michael, it is as you say.
On Friday night we had a remarkable "Nine Lessons and Carols" service, with a few solos and songs thrown in, and an excellent gospel presentation at the close. It was a real nonconformist meeting, like in the old days.
Afterwards I spoke to some young people who had come to take part. One young chap I would describe as Spirit Filled and Zealous for God. He mentioned Paris Reidhead and Leonard Ravenhill, and I mentioned...
Ahem wrote: A classic statement on how to use sovereignty to set aside God's methods and to justify any evil that comes along.
Er...... what "evil" is that exactly? Please be specific, lest we misunderstand one another.
I do realise that Calviniums, on the extreme edge, regard all Arminiums as unregenerate wolves in sheep's clothing. However, the heroes of faith in church history, whom I have respected all my life (all of whom believed in the doctrines of grace) did not have such a bigotry, and there have been many Christian and godly men and women who did not adhere to such fine doctrines who nonetheless were used mightily of God (far more than Ahem, I might add!) to the benefit of countless souls who are now enjoying the delights of heaven, and will do for ever and ever, Amen.
And yet you would like to censure all of our brethren and sisters on these forums who attend a fundamentalium Baptisium church, and have done all their life, soundly converted and love the Lord, and you would want to count them as ungodly refuse and "evil" people? Man, you should watch your tongue! It is like a devil's tongue.
I would think that if a Calvinium does not believe the sovereign God can quicken and enlighten and convict a person of sin sitting in a Crusade Meeting, and thereby bring him, in his heart, to trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, seeing in Jesus the "none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved", even before getting up out of his chair to go to the front (which altar call method I do not like at all, yet notwithstanding there have been a multitude of folks genuinely saved through such a procedure), even before uttering a "sinner's prayer" (which ABC method I do not personally like very much, even though I do know sinners who were soundly converted through being led in a good prayer such as "God be merciful to me, a sinner"; plus the fact that if God were to do such a sovereign work in a man's soul, and sadly were led back into the RCC by Catholic counsellors, yet the sovereign Lord knows ways in which such a dreadful thing may be reversed and the Pilgrim sent on his way following God's instructions by his Spirit, thus believing in God's sovereignty over all things ....... then I must imagine that Calvinium to have not really read his Bible very much, and he needs to get out more.