God bless you friends, for your fellowship in the gospel, and for the good and edifying discussion. Most rewarding, thank you.
I'll be out all day tomorrow trying to sell some paintings, and then if I'm not exhausted I intend to travel to some local lily ponds to take some reference photos. The lilies are currently in full flower, and tomorrow is the only day with guaranteed sunshine, so I have to strike while the iron's hot.
Dolores wrote: I for one have not attended in a few months because of my husband's weakness and sickness. I live stream it from home and am thankful for that but I rather enjoy being a part of the service. Yesterday, pastor gave scriptures to keep us encouraged in the dark hour we are now living in. One being; If my people who are called by my name would repent and turn from their wicked ways and pray, then I will come and heal their land. (From memory so if anyone knows where this verse is located, then your help is appreciared). Then the church was asked to get on their knees if able and pray for our nation and world situation. It starts with us as His people to forsake our own sins first then pray for the nations sins. What good is salt if it has lost it's savory.
I'm sorry to hear of your husband's illness, Dolores.
And I thank you for sharing with us some of your pastor's sermon, which I think is most relevant to our own day and age, as it shows the great mercy of God given when his people get back to their full commitment and repentance. I especially liked the pastor's call for the congregation to go on their knees before God and pray for the nation and the world situation. That's rare, sister.
Headsup wrote: Perhaps you should have specified in your comment you switched from addressing me to addressing Delores. You cause confusion, then you accuse me of being some form of Calvinism? My apologies for not understanding your post
Well if you thought Dolores question was off topic, why enter in to the debate at all? It's you that's off topic now. But hey, I don't mind that. Don't forget, "I'm not a number, I'm a free man."
MS wrote: I agree with your thoughts John. In wrapping up this post...I would add that may we all examine our hearts--where propriety begins--what surgeries has the Holy Spirit already performed there? May we be concerned of the aspects of a spiritual wardrobe and therefore as the elect of God put on bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering....... While not neglecting our outward appearance to reflect who we are in Christ Jesus our Lord. Blessings in the Beloved, fellow Pilgrim.
MS, you are wide awake I perceive. And if you want to stay that way, take no notice of the gainsayers, who would rather you went back to sleep, along with most of the rest of christendom.
Living Christians are a thorn in the side of backsliders and compromisers and false professors. We should never need to fight for godliness within the church, but that's the way of it today, sadly. Most seem to want to just play church, and still indulge in sins.
The church needs to all pull together at least on this issue, seeing as "God is longsuffering to usward, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." ____
Thank you brother B.Mc - sorted. And thanks for all the texts.
headsup wrote: johnuk what does your scenario have to do with the topic at hand? I am not taking the bait to go down some jackrabbit trail with you. If you believe 2 Chronicles is for modern day America, then prove such from Scripture. Please stay with the topic at hand and do not attempt to waste time by chasing rabbits. Do remember, we will be held accountable for how we spend our time, and for every word we utter/type.
Hey, do you mind, oh thou of the self-righteous mindset. I answered a question put by Dolores, if you were paying attention. I don't see any rabbit there. But then, you probably see rabbits wherever you go. Not being nasty, just telling it like it is.
Michael Hranek wrote: How about obey God and weep over the sin of our country and its lukewarm and sleeping churches and pray!
If headsup is a neo-Calvinist, he won't know what it means to weep in prayer for the state of the land. They are taught that everything is predestinated and so they praise God for everything.
Maybe they ought to read some Praying Hyde, or relive George Whitefield preaching with tears out in the fields.
headsup, you are correct in saying that context is all important.
So, in the context of the modern world, would you think that all the "natural disasters" in certain countries, such as earthquakes, drought, high temperatures, freezing temperatures, hurricanes, psunamis, and other extreme weather violence, may in fact be judgments from God on the sins of the people? If so, where would you turn in the Bible for a remedy to the problem, such as repentance? Or is there no mercy with God, and we just have to put up with it, saying, "Praise God for his righteous justice."
MS wrote: 1 Corinthians 1:30.... Judicially a Christian is perfect in Christ. Practically is a daily battle.Galations 5:17. ----- The issue seems to be when other Christians take it upon themselves to decide what is the standard to be practiced by others in matters of apparel, food, drink, hair length for women, beards for men etc. Christan liberty has then been changed to rules that they decide must be kept for their own particular shibboleth.
Yes MS, to all points. I guess we've both come across the legalistic side of the church.
Within grace, there is such a thing as liberty of conscience regarding certain things, and so long as we study God's word and ask his Spirit to guide and lead us, no Christian will go astray.
What concerns me, is that some believers, not having been taught the need for abiding in Christ and thus bearing fruit of the Spirit, have left off needing Jesus to be godly, and have turned to their own ineffective means, which ends up losing that fellowship with God which sensitises our conscience, and can lead to bearing the wrong sort of fruit.
I know this can happen from mine own experiences of the Christian life.
B. McCausland wrote: The answer comes in the text itself. Christ purifies us by "TEACHING US that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;" Beneficial sermon on the topic: 'Holy War' by Chalan Hetherington
Yes the text is always right, and I absolutely agree with you.
Where we differ is in saying that a real Christian can be unsanctified. To my mind, that means his profession is a false one.
B. McCausland wrote: Scripture points to an ongoing work of sanctification. If it were a matter of a once and for all experience, we would not have lists of exhortations as in Ep.4:22- 5:4 to ‚Äėput off‚Äô the deeds of the flesh. Christ "gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and PURIFY unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works, TEACHING US that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Titus 2:12-14." " Christ ‚Ä¶ loved the church, and gave himself for it; THAT HE MIGHT SACNTIFY and CLEANSE it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
B. McCausland wrote: Is might not be as simple. Real Christians might be by all means, shades, and colours, self-willed/disobedient and unsanctified also.
B. McCausland wrote: No. God‚Äôs pattern for Christian sanctification includes active individual involvement along with the Holy Spirit in putting the old man to death. ‚ÄúMortify therefore your members which are upon the earth‚ÄĚ Col 3:5
Are you saying then that the "old man" can be put to death?
And are you saying that once put to death, the "old man" can be resurrected again?
Or does "death" not necessarily mean "death"?
Or are there constituent parts to the "old man", some of which we have put to death, and other parts which we still have to put to death, with total death only occurring at our death?
Mr Wesley had some interesting points to make about that. ___________
SC, yes I do agree with what you say. Even Jesus said that "by their fruits (life), ye shall know them."
The new birth is a mighty, transforming operation of the Spirit of God, and it is very evidenced by a mightily changed life and lifestyle. It cannot really be counterfeited, except in outward appearance. You do not need to tell a newborn Christian that adultery is wrong, nor stealing, nor bearing false witness. The table of 10 merely enhances and details the new nature and how it is to be.
2 Chronicles 7:13-14 KJV (13) If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people; (14) If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
B. McCausland wrote: Is might not be as simple. Real Christians might be by all means, shades, and colours, self-willed/disobedient and unsanctified also.
Of course, and that is the problem.
We should take note of what happened to the Israelites in the OT.
Unless we abide in Christ, even real Christians can go off the rails.
So why oh why is not this aspect of the Christian life put forth continually, that in order to live godly in Christ Jesus, and walk worthy of our high calling, we must needs be continually abiding in Christ, lest we fall from grace and thus try to be godly without the necessary power of The Vine which is the only way we can bear good fruit.
There is such a thing as "trying" to be godly and not getting anywhere, and "being made holy" by the Lord himself.
I'm thinking of those situations where both men and women are compelled by church law to wear certain dress in a desire to be godly. But you can have the outward appearance without the internal reality.
But when God's Spirit fills the saint (which is perfectly normal for every believer to experience, even when there is no revival), then their attitude will be much more careful in every aspect of life, because they are living in the reality of the new creation Christian community, and very aware of the Spirit's conviction when anything is done which violates God's plans for our lives. Thusly, men and women will behave themselves seemly by virtue of their new nature by grace, and not by laws mandated upon them to live by.
This is the main difference between nominal and real Christians.
I think SC has made some valuable comments on this subject and ought to be heard. Some believers are given spiritual gifts of discernment, whether it be of spirits or of an understanding of why certain things are happening. It's just the same with modern versions of the Bible. Some can "see" the end result, and try to warn brethren and sisters and encourage to stick to the KJV or a Bible that is translated from the Majority Text.
Unprofitable Servant is correct about the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist churches, as my experience of them has been that they are very keen for holiness of life and modesty in dress, sometimes even to the point of legalism. And of course, the "Holiness Movement" has been promoting holiness of life in every department by the power of the Spirit ever since its inception.
But sadly, in many churches, you are more likely to be "caused to sin" than be "caused to be holy". And this has the backlash of sincere, God-seeking people, leaving the church.
The only solution to it all is a visitation of God by his Spirit, so that we all experience the "power thereof", rather than going through a "form of godliness".
William S. Sutherland wrote: Today, the first Sunday after this ruling, every God-fearing pastor should have got up in his pulpit and preached a message on Sodom and Gomorrah and the evils of sodomy. It is time for all true believers to stand up and be counted because it will not get any better if we stand silent. The attack is not just on bakers, florists and photographers. This is a war on Christianity itself.
War tends to be good for the remnant; it doesn't allow them to fall asleep in Zion. It is also good for Christendom, as the demarcation lines between nominal and real are made more forcibly visible.
"It is time for all true believers to stand up and be counted because it will not get any better if we stand silent."
Personally I do not believe it will get any better if we stand up to be counted. But I do believe the Lord will bless those who do stand up with great grace and blessings, as they glorify the great God who does all things well.
Lie Detector wrote: Man is not born in sin. There is no such thing as a sin nature, you are entirely accountable for your own transgressions and you have full ability to depart from your sins in repentance. Past sins cannot be atoned for other than the blood of Christ, which is the free gift, but is entirely conditional on you forsaking your sins, for justification comes by works and not by faith only (James 2:24).
I detect so many lies in that short snip, all of which can easily be proven false by the truth of scripture.
However, seeing as you never engaged with me last time you posted all your lies up, I suggest rather that you read through the new testament at least ten times, until your false teaching is dispensed with.
But then, if you do not believe the gospel of God's grace and justification by faith alone in Christ alone, you are currently not justified and therefore still unregenerate, and therefore even the simple things of the new testament will be foreign to your ears and you will not be able to understand them.
So the first thing you need to concentrate on is: "How may a man (or woman) be right with God?"
SteveR, I think this text helps with finding the truth. Seeing as Ahab's "repentance" never did bring about a change in attitude, never caused him to rebuke Jezebel, never made him return the vineyard stolen from Naboth, I think we can assume it was his own skin he was hoping to save from his misdeed, therefore a "worldly sorrow" rather than a "godly sorrow".
2 Corinthians 7:9-11 KJV (9) Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. (10) For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. (11) For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
Well written post, Christopher, and I'm with you wholeheartedly.
The Bible is clear that we are saved by what our Lord Jesus Christ has done for us, having lived a perfect life on our behalf, keeping the law without spot, and imputing his righteousness to those who believe and trust in him. The enlightenment for such a trust is granted by God, because "salvation is of the Lord" and not of our own logical deductions brought about through "proofs".
Thusly, "he that believeth on him hath everlasting life".
And "he that believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God".
But if that new birth, and being made a new creature in Christ Jesus, with a new heart and a renewed spirit, does not evidence itself with a corresponding new life, with a multitude of changes, then it is right to say that the person has not experienced what God means when he says, "Ye must be born again."
Conversion is known by the change of attitude to God, Christ, the Holy Ghost, sin and righteousness, along with fruit-bearing of the Holy Spirit, which fruit is brought about by the indwelling Christ by his Spirit, such as love, joy, peace etc.
Thusly, God is always glorified in his saints, because it is all his work not our's.