Get Real wrote: This is why I intend to stop coming here to comment, it's not doing any good, it's dwelling on the negative, creating more negativity in my already nightmarish life ... I wont be around much any longer, I already spend days where I refuse to read the news and comments here ... nothing against you all, it's just that it used to feel like the right thing to do and now I can see how it's not helping anything ... I still pray for you all, God Bless
Good post. I feel exactly the same way. There is a good opportunity here for saints to be refreshed, enjoy a time of fellowship, and speak of the things of God, and the joy of knowing Jesus. But what does SermonAudio put up every single day as "news" items? Negative, Negative, Negative! I'm sick and tired of sodomy issues, abortion issues, presidential election issues, massacres, gun toting lunatics, politics, liberalism, ecumenists, Roman Catholics, Pope Francis......
Some say, "Well, these are the issues of our day." What? Every day, 365 days a year? It will NOT have a good effect, indeed it will have a BAD effect.
Why not bring back the forums, where we can talk about biblical issues of salvation? If not, I'm outta here!
Dave my bro, I'm glad your fellowship has been discussing open air preaching and pondering about it. IMHO there is no better way of communicating the gospel to those who are outside the church, and it is certainly a biblical method of proclaiming Christ to the world. If in times of prayer the Lord impresses it on your heart more and more, you can take it that he wants you to prepare for such a venture.
I can testify that in my years as a Christian, the greatest blessing for me was in witnessing out in the world, either giving out tracts, talking to people, or preaching the gospel on a soap box.
The key issue is: "Do whatever he tells you".
Thanks to St Michael for your encouraging words also.
Dave, thanks for sharing that testimony of God's grace. The apostle has a similar one, but he was worse, even calling himself "the chief of sinners":
Just for your encouragement:
1 Timothy 1:12-17 KJV (12) And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; (13) Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. (14) And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. (15) This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. (16) Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. (17) Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
SAR wrote: Psl 118:8-9 Its better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. It is better to trust the LORD than to put confidence in princes. History proves that when Evangelicals support any give candidate he does not full fill their expectations. May be its time for the Evangelicals to trust only in Christ and not opportunistic politicians.
I never trusted politicians as an unbeliever, and certainly not as a believer.
The Lord Jesus Christ, reigning as he does as King over all the earth, with ultimate sovereign power, is good enough for me.
And he comes back soon, to end time, and bring in eternity. The sheep and the goats will be separated and sent to their eternal abode. God's people to the everlasting felicity, and the unrepentant to hell fire, where is weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Andrea,Athens Greece wrote: I will pray,have fellowship and praise our Lord with any brother or sister that is a Bible believing Christian following Christ and His Word!!! Doctrine,tradition and religion will not get anyone into heaven,only Jesus can.
It is very true Andrea that God's elect have fellowship with one another because they are all in the body of Christ and united together through faith in him, saved by grace, having been chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.
And although it is true that tradition and religion are ineffective in bringing anyone to heaven, it is also true that "only Jesus can" is a very wonderful doctrine (teaching). Doctrinal teaching and preaching is the mainstay of all true preachers and teachers, because everything they speak is an exposition of what God himself says in his word, thusly the preacher's lips are full of sound doctrine. The gospel itself is the doctrine of salvation, and the Doctrines of Grace are most comforting to a redeemed soul. Why? Because all of God's people will be received safely into heaven because of what their Saviour did for them in his sinless life, atoning death and glorious resurrection. He has done it all, praise God!
Dolores wrote: Btw, Tozer points out that he is not giving steps123 if that's what you are looking for you will be disappointed. He just helps you understand the whole concept of this gift and clears up a lot of misconceptions, that if you are truly seeking for answers.
I remember Willie Mullan preaching on Ephesians 5:18 ".......but be filled with the Spirit."
He said it was a certain tense in the verb, which made it "....go on being continually filled with the Spirit."
Thusly implying that "one filling for life" was not the correct way of understanding this text, but that we are to be submissive to him, and allowing God to continually fill us every day.
I've no doubt that I fall short of that, and that grieves me very much.
Rodney K. wrote: As we look upon the vileness of sin, may we be reminded of the staggering awesomeness of our Saviour and Redeemer! Amazing love! How can it be, That Thou, my God should die for me?
Thanks for the reminder, Rodney. The Lord is working out his purposes in this world, and there is nothing more suited to increasing our love and obedience to him, than in remembering that it is he who has loved a peculiar people from eternity past, specifically died for them in bearing away all their sins, called them in time and justified them, putting his Spirit in them, giving them the mind of Christ, putting a new song in their heart, even praise to God, opening for them the narrow gate that they may walk the narrow way with him, sanctifying them through his word, filling them with power from above, making them fishers of men, bringing forth repentance daily, increasing faith, producing steadfastness in the face of evil, and is coming again for his chosen and beloved, to bring them all to heaven at last.
And it be ALL OF GRACE......
So to him be glory, all the glory.
Amazing love......that he should die for me, a wretched sinner. Amazing! Amazing!
seen it right off wrote: Then you shake the dust off your feet and leave. Once again I'm only pointing out the better system of appeal and recourse vs mob rule.
SIRO, I think you're referring to the accountability of pastors and elders within the Presbyterian-style churches, whereby every pastor and elder within a certain district can be held to account by the regular corporate meeting of every other elder and pastor in that district. This should safeguard every congregation from a wayward pastor.
Sounds good on paper.
However, I can assure you that it has not worked here in the UK, where all the mainstream Presbyterian churches are now composed of unregenerate liberals, forcing any genuine Christian to depart. Those with leadership skills and gifts have formed new denominations, rather like Ian Paisley's Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster and its equivalent in North America.
As Bro Mike NY commented earlier, if an independent church goes down, it goes down alone. But if a presbytery goes down, it takes all with it, as history has proven.
Not wishing to put you off your chosen course, merely pointing out that your failsafe is not as secure as you might think.
Query wrote: In the old days the churches used catechisms to cause people to think before providing an answer. It's a good way to edify, wouldn't you say?
Okay, so what does the catechism say about Paul's statement that "he that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself"?
BTW, I believe that if God's people were to spend an hour with Jesus, they would be more blessed and edified after that hour than those who spend five years at a Bible College learning all the creeds, catechisms, confessions and all the rest of it.
Query wrote: Two comments: 1. Edify does mean to build up, but specifically through the understanding. Look at the context of the verses. It is all about speech that can be understood. 2. 1 Cor 12.7 makes it clear that "... the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal." Who is the withal? Again context (the body) determines that it is the Churches. So with 1) in mind, how can a language one speaks which one does not understand edify in any sense of the word? And secondly what does self edification have to do with the gifts which are meant to edify everyone?
Okay, so why not have a try at edifying me, and everyone else on the forum, instead of asking silly questions about what God had recorded for us in his word. Thank you.
When mention is made of "spiritual gifts", some folks immediately are thinking of "sign gifts" such as tongues, healing, prophetic utterances etc. Personally I think this is a big mistake.
The "gifts" mentioned in the NT are many and varied, yet so little emphasis is placed on them, but when they are recognised in a local church and allowed to flourish, for the benefit of all, great good comes from them. This is perfectly natural to expect, because it is God the Holy Spirit who has given such gifts for the set purpose of blessing the little flock. Even the pastor/teacher has to have spiritual gifts in order to perform his ministry, as do those with the ministry of hospitality, mercy, helps etc.
I've been in charismatic circles and seen the attempt to emulate the apostles of The Lamb, but there was never any evidence to suppose that they accomplished it, rather their talk was empty, prophecies were too vague, and I discovered that there was more sick people in charis churches than in ordinary Baptist circles. And in six years I was certainly never edified by the useage of any so-called gifts. I also, back in the 80's, spent a year in Elim Pentecostal, and saw less work of the Spirit there than in my previous cessationist church.
Query wrote: What does the word "edify" mean? And given the meaning how does one edify oneself in a language that one does not understand? Besides Paul has already made the point that the gifts were given for the edification of the whole body. So is he now changing his mind?
1 Corinthians 14:4 KJV (4) He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
Edify seems to mean a spiritual blessing, or a means of improvement in character, or better knowledge of doctrine. If the church is edified by the preaching of the word - which it is - then how is a person edified by his praying in a language which he understands not? If anyone knows the answer, I would be right glad to hear it.
As for Paul changing his mind, I think not. And the spiritual gifts were not for the body of Christ only, but also for the good of those yet outside the church. If we observe the life of Christ, he "went about doing good", and when we are indwelt by him, we also can (in his strength) "go about doing good".
1 Corinthians 14:1-4 KJV (1) Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. (2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. (3) But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. (4) He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
Now if I take what Bro Lurker said earlier - which was quite right - and if I take the above passage - which is also right - then I have to conclude that the two things are quite different. Which is maybe why the issue is such a hot potato.
I've known the same thing occur with the wording on the Spirit-Baptism. Some make it so complex, saying, well, Jesus baptises with the Spirit, and the Spirit baptises into Jesus, there is the baptism of the Spirit and the baptism in the Spirit and the baptism with the Spirit. Oh boy, it's much simpler than all that.
nat wrote: I do not doubt that we are in Christ by the spirit and that we are in him forever. I do not think people are not saved if they do not speak in tongues. But i still believe that baptism is the holy ghost is a separate and supernatural occurrence that can only happen to born again believers. The purpose being for equipping and edifying the church through spiritual gifts which everyone here believes they have ceased. But i think we will just agree to disagree about that otherwise this thread will be going around in circles ?? It was nice discussing this with you all. Catch ya around ?
It's always good to discuss, especially if the intent is edification of fellow believers, and all done in love etc.
But I think you are gravely mistaken when you say that all here are cessationists.
God has given to me myself spiritual gifts which are used in the context of a local church unto edification. And I do not say that of myself, it is what others have said.
But one thing is for sure, and that is that the one gift which cannot be proven, is that gift which seems to be the most made of in Pentecostal circles; and that emphasis is not biblical, as I shall demonstrate.
nat wrote: Yes that is probably correct. Thanks John. It is different.
You're welcome, Nat.
A study of the New Testament regarding what has happened to you "in Christ", would reveal that "in HIM" you have everything necessary to live a godly, powerful life.
As Sister B has already mentioned several times, the Baptism in the Spirit is a one off experience whereby God himself incorporates you into the "Body of Christ", and this experience goes under a multitude of different descriptions. Peter was sent by revelation to attend upon Cornelius and give him a message by which he would be saved. When Peter began preaching, the Holy Ghost "fell upon" all gathered, they were ALL born again of the Spirit. Peter later related that this was the same experience he and the apostles had on the Day of Pentecost, which Jesus called the "Baptism with the Spirit".
This example of the first Gentile convert, I believe, is the same for us today. The word preached is accompanied by the ministry of the Spirit, who brings to life whomever he wills.
Thusly, everyone who is born again is baptised with the Spirit, and needs nothing else, they have the whole package. They are IN CHRIST, in HIM forever.
nat wrote: Baptism of the spirit is a submersion of ourselves into the holy spirit. That is why apostle Paul commands us to be filled in the spirit. he was speaking to believers. This infilling is what i am speaking about.
Nat, I've been following this discussion with interest.
There is a big difference between "Spirit-Baptism" and the ongoing experience of being continually "filled with the Spirit" as in Ephesians 5:18.
Acts 1:4-8 KJV (4) And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. (5) For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. (6) When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? (7) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. (8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
I'm very glad to see that SermonAudio in partnership with the Trinitarian Bible Society is still continuing after many years in making the KJV Gospel of John available freely to many folks, currently the city of Las Vegas, NV.
This makes me very happy, and endears me to both SermonAudio and to the TBS.
As it has always said at the head of the SA HomePage, "faith cometh by hearing".