Christopher000 wrote:
Ivan, what I think is this: You once loved America and wanted to eventually have the privilege of calling yourself an American and have an American flag blowing in the wind hung up high on a pole on your new front lawn.
But...you were denied a green card, destroying your dream of ever becoming an American and now you are bitter, hating the America that you once loved.
How'd I do?

John UK wrote:
Don't know - what do you call a funny American comedian?

Christopher000 wrote:
I thought humor was banned in the UK.

John UK wrote:
I used to have some great humorous exchanges here on SA, but your American brethren kept telling me off.

John UK wrote:
But now you are here, with your superior wit, I've no doubt we could have some joyful exchanges without interference from the kill-joys.

God speaks of two different Jerusalems. One is the earthly one we initially think of, but the other is “Jerusalem above� which is made up of all the true believers:
“But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.� (Galatians 4:26)
In Isaiah 40:1-2 God speaks of “Jerusalem above.� We know it is the “Jerusalem above� because God says her iniquity is pardoned; only the true believers have their iniquities pardoned. There God says the believers have received double for their sins:
“Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God. Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD's hand double for all her sins.� (Isaiah 40:1-2)

And once more I say or ask the question are you a child of the night?in which case the following will apply "HE will come as a thief in the night !

or are you a child of the Day in which case you will know when the MASTER comes!

We can not know how "GOD" spoke and created the entire universe either but we believe it

because HE said it and He wrote it in a BOOK !

WATCH only some few months to go till May 21,2011

His work is applied to them and so, in that sense, the result is the same as if the believers had made the payment themselves. This is why they too are referred to as the firstborn:
“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.� (Romans 8:29)

The Double Inheritance

The Bible calls Christ “the firstborn from the dead�:
“And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.� (Colossians 1:18)

In principle, the elect were there making payment for their sins through Christ:
“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.� (Galatians 2:20)
We have to be careful how we understand this fact. Christ did all the work required to save the believers; they did not contribute in any way.

We find another passage in Hebrews which teaches that Christ already suffered before Creation, but He suffered once again at the cross:
“For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.� (Hebrews 9:24-26)

We know that Christ did not actually die spiritually on the cross. We know this because He told the thief that he would be with Him in paradise that day:
"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." (Luke 23:43)

Now we know that Christ went to the cross so He could demonstrate His love:
“In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.� (1 John 4:9)
Judicially, it wasn’t necessary for Christ to go to the cross, but He endured suffered a second time out of love to demonstrate to the elect what He had already done for them before time began.

We find this reiterated in First Peter where we are told Christ was already the Lamb slain before time began, but He did it again “in these last times for you�:
“But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you� (1 Peter 1:19-20)

A logical question at this point is, “If Christ already made the payment before this world was created, then why did He go to the cross?� Christ had already made the payment for sin prior to Creation, so from a judicial standpoint there was no need for Christ to go to the cross. This is why God recorded that no sin was found in Christ:
“Then said Pilate to the chief priests and to the people, I find no fault in this man.� (Luke 23:4)
In the past we’ve always understood this to be stating the obvious: Jesus Himself never sinned. We would say He was carrying our sins, but He Himself was without sin. However, now we can better understand why God put this in the Bible. True, Jesus Himself was without sin, but at that point He wasn’t carrying the elect’s sins either because they had already been paid for before Creation.