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Willie wrote: Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
The word in the original is not 'every man,''every human being;' it is "every one,"â€” a word that naturally leads you on to ask, 'Every one of whom? And when you look into the context you find a particular class of persons mentioned, â€” "the heirs of salvation"â€” the "many sons" of God â€” the "sanctified" ones â€” the "brethren" of Christ â€” the "children" of Christ,"whom God had given Him." It was for " every one" of these, that Jesus, when He became mortal, laid down His life.
Michael Hranek wrote: HUH No! I did not respond as I did to you because you denigrated prayer or seeking God (Something the pastor did) And if anyone is having their 'prejudices challenged by truth!' in this case I believe it is you, specificially the ABUSE OF CESSATIONISM IS POISONOUS, as you posted:
That is what I repsonded to. I respectfully did not agree with that and took your comment, essentially how you judged mine, that you did like your prejudices challanged, especially by a real life example. Hope that clears it up for you
Clear as the fact that your ABUSE OF CONTINUISM IS POISONOUS.
I NEVER said this former pastor claimed to have healed her, and kindly look in the book of Acts if you will, and read through the account of the man crippled from birth at the gate called beautiful and notice well, neither Peter nor John (who we might safely say in proper context had 'sign gifts') claimed to have healed this man either
BTW If you imagine this church's abuse of "its" power (bullying) had nothing to do with an ABUSE of 'cessationism' there aint much anyone can really say to you is there
So be careful, be very careful here that you do not become a stumbling block in the faith of others, in something which is exceedingly precious to God, the effective fervant praying of His children after all Jesus Himself said... Mark 11:22-24 take note especially of Mark 11:24
God forbid that your prejudices should be challenged by truth!
I've not once denigrated prayer or seeking God. So I have no idea why you keep accusing me of it. Maybe abuse of your continuist position?
Michael Hranek wrote: Abuse of 'cessationism' can rob a church of the Power of God
The man did not claim that he healed her. He prayed and God healed her (following the James 5 pattern). So I cannot see that he is claiming to have exercised any spiritual gift.
That the church threw him out, is a reflection on the church, and perhaps his ministry(?) which made the church as it became. But this abuse of church power is nothing to do with cessationism. It is plain old bullying!
Michael Hranek wrote: ... So how about you, how about your church, does your faith have anything like this kind of life in its faith and praying? Or have you allowed 'cessationism' to rob you in your faith and praying of the kind of confidences God wants His children to have in Him? I don't know about you but I am sick of pretend Christianity and I believe their is likewise a God-fearing remnent who are hungry and thirsty for God too.
Michael, whilst I agree with what you have written about a hungering and thirsting after God and prayer meetings, I cannot agree that any stupor in this area has anything to do with cessationism.
Wordliness, false conversions, error ridden and false teaching, ecumenism, anti separatism etc. all play their part in robbing the modern church of a felt sense of God's presence.
The post reformation European churches (until the rise of Pentecostalism) were all cessationist, but they nevertheless valued prayer and enjoined God's gracious presence in numerous wonderful revivals. Their cessationism hindered not one whit their spiritual yearnings.
Michael Hranek wrote: So basically you are pretty much telling me, that even though you give lip service to "God is always a God of miracles" the poisonous influence of "cessationism", has had its work in you and that to you God just doesn't do the supernatural today, like is written about in the Bible, a defacto (if this is the right term) stumbling block to seek Him in faith for that, to expect Him to really be there, in His manifest power, in your life, as He was in the early church. Thanks but no thanks.
When you can raise the dead, heal cripples, walk on water, restore sight to the blind and hearing to the deaf, let me know and we can continue this conversation. But until then I will maintain that the sign gifts which pointed to men being the authorized mouth pieces of God have disappeared.
But, God in answer to prayer, still restores health (see James 5), and works wonderful providential works. My faith in God is not dented just because the sign gifts have ceased. Maybe you need that crutch to support your faith?!
Michael Hranek wrote: HUH That's acceptable Just keep in mind, should you come to truly need an out and out miracle, you might consider seeking out some prayer partners who have a bit of gumption in their faith and not those who are ify and/or blase
Sorry, but you're compounding your confusion. God is always a God of miracles, even if he does not choose to perform them at the hands of humans as he did with the apostles, because they were unique bearers of new revelation.
Michael Hranek wrote: HUH Ah, so you aren't the only one. That explains a good bit. I apologize for accusing/insinuating you use multiple monikers and ask your forgiveness. I am not sure exactly what I will think next time I see Huh, is it you or is it somebody else So getting back to the 'start', let me be a clear as I might I will stand by my post that there has been: "...a poisonous influence of "cessationism", that God really doesn't do the supernatural today, like is written about in the Bible, a defacto (if this is the right term) prohibition against of even looking for Him to really be there, in His manifest presence, in your life." Thanks for clearing up you post under Huh and other people have used (abused?) your initials.
No harm done. Thank you for the apology - accepted.
I respect your right to believe what you do, even if I consider it muddled and confusing.
Michael Hranek wrote: PoT How do you know Huh is a him? Oops! Looks like I am thoroughly guilty of not know who Huh is, maybe he/she does only use that moniker. Or maybe others use it too? Now you did kind of jump in there pretty quickly to kind of get on my case about him/her and turn the convesation away from the Present Day Ministry of the Holy Spirit and cessationism. A real genuine work of the Holy Spirit being essential if the people of God would see any so needed and so undeserved REVIVAL/AWAKENING Bye got things to do As I go, JAY JAY Mister or Miss Huh hasn't posted anything back as only using that one moniker, so you might be wrong (oh no!) in asking that I appologize the truth is we don't know only "Huh" does and at this time he/she hasn't saw fit to clarify the matter Bye to you as well (unless of course you are posting under a whole bunch of monikers too and I have already said Bye to you)
Evasive just as expected. I am using the initials of my name, and have always posted using this moniker. But, others use it too. Why? That's for them to answer. So your accusation was false, not that I expect that to trouble you!
Michael Hranek wrote: Huh PoT too, maybe If you really want to get upset with me, or far, far worse upset with God, go ahead and listen to No! It is Time To Pray For REVIVAL Now I warn you its only an 8:35 long audio news commentary not a full blown sermon but I believe there is enough for it to be really upsetting for self-righteous hypocrites, who are avoiding a real obedience to God like the plague
Distraction from the point. What does revival have to do with miraculous gifts?
Michael Hranek wrote: Huh (whoever you are, how about using one moniker and staying with it, or even better your real name) No. I will stand by my comment, as I have repeatedly seen first had the influence of those who believe the "sign gifts" of the Holy Spirit have passed away hindering people from humbly honestly fervently seeking the very real Supernatural Power and Manifest Holy Presence, and the Present Day Ministry of the Holy Spirit in their lives, their praying and their witness And please don't come back with empty lip service of how you believe God still does miracles today, believing that and humbly seeking God to actually do them (especially for the miracle of salvation/new birth in the Holy Spirit for those we love and care about), trusting He is the same Today are quite different things editted after John UK's post BTW For all of us, such HUMBLE, Honest, Fervant Seeking of God, Let me repeat that, OF GOD, not so much His gifts, only they are part of Seeking Him, is wonderfully life changing, part of God working in us to change us more and more into the image of His Son Jesus Christ
Just more confusion, even to the point of confusing the work of the Spirit with his gifts. Very sad!
Michael Hranek wrote: John UK Wales Good points Which ties in with the poisonous influence of "cessationism", that God really doesn't do the supernatural today, like is written about in the Bible, a defacto (if this is the right term) prohibition against of even looking for Him to really be there, in His manifest presence, in your life.
You've just demonstrated that you don't understand cessationism.
James Thomas wrote: Sorry to you "huh" for not responding to your question. Let me attempt to do as .
See James this is why you or anyone else can't just throw out Bible verses as "proof" because none of the verses you quoted say that God predetermines the action of everyman, nobody is saying God doesn't work in circumstances and individuals to specifically work His will, like the virgin birth for instance, what no verse says is that God foreordains every action of every person and you can't produce one in your response, it will always be a specific person, people or circumstance.