I had heard of what others who had abandoned their family faith had suffered and had no idea what I would face. My family recognised the change in me, but tried to write it off as some aberration. I tried to join a local church and this brought matters to a head, the upshot of which was that I was asked to leave home. I had nowhere to turn and so went to see the pastor of the church who made enquiries and put me in touch with a deacon who let me have a flat for a nominal rent because I earned very little. The Lord has continued to deal with this sinner very graciously and even though I have let him down again and again, often grievously, he has proved faithful to me. I stand in awe of his holiness and majesty, I am humbled that he should ever deal this worm with such mercy, grace and kindness. All praise to his dear name.
I apologise for such lengthy posts, but I trust you will join with me in thanking God for the riches of his love and condescension in Christ our Saviour.
Thank you brother Lurker for the welcome back. Appreciated.
When I saw the boy, my heart started to race and I braced myself for another beating. He crossed the room and when near enough he held out his hand and apologised to me. Naturally, I was delighted with this, but this was literally the first ever answer to prayer I had experienced. I decided never to pray to any other deity. Of course I was not a Christian and with the encouragement of some friends who professed Christ I started reading the Bible. I read the NT through at least twice, I attended some rallies, went forward when the alter call was made etc. but no change in me yet. I saw myself as a Hindu and Christian. I then went to university, joined with other Christians in the CU and continued to read the Bible. This time the experience was very different. Every word that I read pierced my heart. The love of Christ melted my heart, I saw and felt my own wickedness and need of the Saviour as never before, I repented in tears, came to believe firmly in the one only saviour of mankind. I saw the exclusive claims of Christ and determined to follow him no matter what. I had a wonderful sense of God's presence with me which stayed with me for several months.
I was born and raised up in a Hindu family in East Africa. I was always interested in art from a young age. Aged about 9 I was walking home from school and happened to see a booklet on the ground with great comic drawing. I picked it up and read it. It was a summary presentation of Christ's life and death which made a real impact on me, but not to convert. We had to move to England. Being the eldest it was my responsibility to pray to the deities morning and evening at our home shrine. But this changed for me after an experience. I was set upon by the school bully aged 15 because of the colour of my skin. We'd been involved in a car accident a few weeks before and my father was in intensive car fighting for his life. I was trying to hurry to the hospital to meet my mum. I didn't say anything to my parents, but I recalled the words of Christ to pray for enemies, and so during my devotions I prayed to none other deity, but to Christ to forgive this boy and help me to forgive him. A few days later I was called into the head's office who told me she was made aware of what had happened. I refused to implicate the boy. A couple of days later I went to school and was in the locker room to hang up my coat when this boy walked in.
Lurker wrote: Sorry Frank, I was near tears when I wrote that comment, having read the toxic abuse and personal attacks amongst Christian brothers which happened during the day. My comment wasn't meant to include your posts. But now that sadness has turned to anger over the nonchalant attitudes about what has happened which tells me something is seriously amiss. I need to consider whether there is a place for me here any longer.
With great sadness I have to agree with you. I too need to consider whether there is a place for me here any longer.
Dolores wrote: Thanks Helps, thanks for clearing that up about what TS, said like pennned said to Frank, he is not seeing her point but I do because my daughter is a teacher and has to work because she was an abused wife and had a child. It wasn't easy but she raised him as a single mom and he is a teacher now and will be marrying a sweet christian woman whose parents are both pastors of a Presbyterian church, my in-laws are pentecostal, I had a church of Christ neighbor, I am Baptist with Methodist friends, a Jew that is the step grandmother, on and on. My granddaughter talks her about Jesus and she listens but it's not in a condemning way. It's kinda hard for me to be judgemental you see. God lets me know He doesn't need my help to change anyone.My point was that you can be favored on one thread and be at odds on another. Sorry, I just didn't get that across. I, not like some, do have feet of clay.
I meant no criticism of you Dolores. Just setting the record straight in case some reading your post attributed those sentiments to TS.
Dolores wrote: ....Right now at this very moment, John Uk and troll spotter are in disagreement about does God still speak to us today? I say yes, do I condemn troll spotter and am mean to him no. God forbid. This is why I don't seek the favor of man because that can be very fickle like I said......
In the interest of fairness, just in case TS does not see your comment to respond to Dolores, I should correct your statement of TS's stand. He did NOT say that God does not speak today.
Here is a quote from TS, 10/31/14 12.42 PM, "...John, please don't misrepresent what I am saying. I am not saying God doesn't speak. I am saying that we don't see eye to eye on what the speaking amounts to. My contention is that he uses his word, as A W Pink explains HERE Ditch the Word and you've become a mystic!"
John UK wrote: Hello GS, Are you referring to the text: Acts 2:17-21 KJV... A lot depends on the meaning of the words "the last days" and "that great and notable day of the Lord". We know that Joel's prophecy was all about the new covenant which began at Pentecost in Acts 2, but was this new covenant made obsolete and replaced by a third, which was the same as the second but with things missing?
John, from Hebrew 9.17 we know that the NC came into force immediately The Lord died. Joel's prophecy concerned one of the first blessings of the NC viz. the giving of the Holy Spirit. So not sure what you mean about the NC starting at Pentecost.
TS stated that Pentecost didn't happen every single day of the NT. Do you disagree? If not, do you have a third covenant to explain why not, if this was so central an evidence of the NC and had to keep happening again and again?
When I have time I want to take some of the lessons of Pentecost and quiz you on them.
John UK wrote: ... But I had heard God speaking to me before then, when I wasn't reading the Bible, when I wasn't seeking him. I say Glory to God! You say, "It cannot be!" Ah, but he did speak to me when I was drunk, and he told me that I was a hell-bound sinner, and on the verge of death. He showed me that there was a God who judged sinners, that I was damned, that there was no hope for me. Praise God! You say, "It cannot be!" But it was so. And I care not who gainsays it, even if they be my dearest friends. I will not deny what the Great God has done in my life, by direct communication, unsought and unwanted. But he did it. One day you can ask him, and he will tell you. Now please stop acting like those in the new testament who kept asking the sick man how he got healed.
If so John, you shouldn't quote Bonar to justify your experience, because clearly he's not saying the same as you. And, by the way, I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just trying to figure out where you're leading with all this. You believe The Lord spoke with you, fine. But now you're saying that he should speak like that with everyone?
John UK wrote: Horatius Bonar I heard the voice of Jesus say, "Come unto Me and rest; Lay down, thou weary one, lay down Thy head upon My breast!" I came to Jesus as I was, Weary and worn and sad; I found in Him a resting place, And He has made me glad. I heard the voice of Jesus say, "Behold, I freely give The living water‚ÄĒ thirsty one, Stoop down, and drink, and live!" I came to Jesus, and I drank Of that life-giving stream: My thirst was quenched, my soul revived, And now I live in Him. I heard the voice of Jesus say, "I am this dark world's Light; Look unto Me, thy morn shall rise, And all thy day be bright!" I looked to Jesus, and I found In Him my Star, my Sun; And in that Light of life I'll walk Till trav'ling days are done.
John, I don't know where you are leading with this, but I would say he heard those words spoken to him in the Bible and through biblical preaching. Do you want me to put together some passages to illustrate this?
John UK wrote: .. As for revival being the norm or not. If a flower is wilting in a vase, it probably needs watering. Then it revives. Now if a believer is wilting, they need (as Lloyd-Jones said), a fresh baptism of the Spirit and of fire. And he continued to say that if a large group of believers were baptised with the Spirit all together, that was a revival - big time.
Not a view of revival that everyone would agree with John. The other way of viewing it is to say that the churches have a great commission which they are supposed to be obeying, The Lord being with them as he promised. But, from time to time, in the Sovereignty of God, there are special visitations, when God grants an extraordinary sense of his presence and power and there follow extraordinary blessings. This view is IMHO more faithful to church history and does not unjustly condemn or deride churches that seek to obey the great commission and only see limited blessing as determined by a Sovereign God.
John UK wrote: ....... It is the same with revival. Until a person experiences it for themself, they flap about like a beached stingray..
Just a quick comment for consideration. As you know the Church meeting at the Met Tab do a sterling gospel work and each year they see quite a number saved and added to their numbers. I recall at one of the Seminary sessions Dr Masters commenting on the books on Revivals printed by the BOT, and other books pretty much telling us that that is what we should all be seeking. Dr Masters comment was that this proves to be a useful distraction for churches that are not working churches. In other words where there is no emphasis on Gospel work, with all church members involved in Christian service, the only way they can envisage any blessing is by way of Revival. Instead of remedying their lack of service they gather to pray for revival. It seems to me that in your insistence that revival conditions should be the norm, you are advocating something similar with the added aspect of what you term 'experiential' Christianity, a term you are not using in its usual meaning, because every true Christian experiences The Lord and has a relationship with him, whatever you may think of the quality of that. God bless
.... John 20.1 we find guidance on whether the Christian sabbath should be the seventh day or the first day of the week. The answer of all but a very small minority of Christians down the centuries has been ‚Äď the first day. The authority for this is the example of the church of the New Testament, which was no doubt commanded by God, through the apostles. The special day for Christians was distinguished from the Jewish sabbath, and set on the day of Christ‚Äôs resurrection.
The Lord rose from the dead on the first day of the week, and in John 20.19 and 26 we observe that other appearances of the resurrected Lord were also on subsequent first days. Verse 19 reads ‚Äď ‚ÄėThen the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst.‚Äô He stands amidst his people, and pronounces his peace upon them, on what came to be called, 'the Lord‚Äôs Day'.
Verse 26 reads: 'And after eight days again?.?.?.?then came Jesus.' We would say after seven days, but the Jews started counting on the first day and finished counting on the last day and so they made seven, eight. The text intends to tell us that the Lord appeared the very next Sunday....
Christopher000 wrote: I can understand someone who doesn't really believe and wanting to make a quick buck, but it's always hard for me to believe that any born again Christian would relate and promote such storys if they weren't accurate and true.
We have to question the legitimacy of most of these experiences.
The apostle Paul had a genuine experience, but just look at 2 Corinthians 12 and see how Paul dealt with his experience. What he heard were unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter (v4). What he saw, he'd rather not say in case anyone thought too highly of him (v6), and in case he was tempted to think too highly of himself the Lord gave him something to keep him humble (v7).
If we accept the apostle as a pattern then this is how we'd expect anyone granted a special vision/revelation to be dealt with by the Lord and how we'd expect them to deal with their experience. If they proclaim it from the roof tops and try and make money from writing books etc, we have to wonder about their motives if not the genuineness of their experience. And you already know, even from those on SA, that not every person who claims to be a Christian is one.
SteveR wrote: Ye know not the Scriptures Cyrus was a type of Christ, Jonah was a type, Melchizedek, Joseph too even the Brass Serpent destroyed by Hezekiah was a type of Christ....
Actually you are the ignorant one. You cannot just pull Types out of thin air. I suggest you study the subject in detail before pontificating.
Also, the king in the book of Esther is Ahasuerus, not Cyrus!
As for Ahasuerus, Bishop Hall writes:
"In all the carriage of Ahasuerus, who sees not too much headiness of passion ? Vashti is cast off for a trifle ; the Jews are given to the slaughter for nothing : his rage in the one, his favour in the other, is too impotent. He is not a worse husband than a king : the bare word of Haman is enough to kill so many subjects. No disposition can be more dangerous in great persons, than violence of affection mixed with credulity. The seeming inequality of human conditions! ‚ÄúThe king and Haman sat down to drink, but the city of Shushan was perplexed.‚ÄĚ It is a woeful thing to see great ones quaff the tears of the oppressed, and to hear them make music of shrieks."
John UK wrote: Bro, I am limited in what I can read and listen to. I've no doubt Dr Masters will have some good things to say. Both Frank and Unprofitable Servant have got straight to the heart of what I was saying - it is a matter of the heart not the actions.......
No doubt bro, but that does not and cannot counter those who say that they should have choirs, bands, electric guitars, CCM etc, in church because for them (so they claim) it does not distract from the heart being engaged in worship. To them the so called worship wars are all about personal preference, and preferred music styles and nothing to do with the Lord's standards and requirements.
Anyways, as I said, I was only trying to be a help.
John UK wrote: I rather fear, bro, that it would end up too intellectual.
Brother John, you should know by now that in his public ministry Dr Masters does not do 'intellectual' but rather 'biblical' and practical. Dr Masters preached and then wrote a number of articles which later became a book which was entitled "Worship in the Melting pot". The first 4 articles are on the Met Tab website. The fifth I can't find in print but happened to come across the YouTube recording of his sermon which covers the ground of the fifth chapter. In this sermon he looks at the biblical evidence for what constitutes worship and how so much of what passes for worship is anything but. I appreciate it is an imposition on your precious time, but I was trying to be helpful in pointing to the sermon in the hope that it might offer some much needed clarity on the issue. It was not my intention to press the issue, but rather that it may make a contribution to the debate. Alas....it's not to be.