* St Peter himself alludes to being in "Babylon", a code word for a powerful, and sinful city. Being present in Rome is the most reasonable reason for such secrecy.
* The writings of certain Church Fathers say flatly that Peter not only was in Rome, but died there. The Vatican can show you his bones. Hence, the story that he was Bishop of Rome.
* Catholicism's origins were in Judea at the time of Christ. The Fourth Century was the time that Constantine elevated the Roman Church to the status of the "State Religion".
* All power given to the RCC were granted by Jesus Christ in Matt 16. The RCC's foundations are on Jesus Christ and the 3-legged stool. 1)Bible 2)Teaching Magisterium 3)God's word in oral form, or Tradition (as opposed to Man' tradition-little t)
* The RCC jealously guarded God's people from error and only threatened those heretics who would not repent. The Mosaic Law put heretics to death by stoning. We at least gave them a chance to repent.
* The Catholic Church was responsible for the assemblying of the original Christian Bible and selected which books were allowed. She has always defened the Scriptures vehemetly and will not allow God's people to read incorrect or heretical texts.
* The remainder of "Sheer-luck's" post is sheer nonsense!
Not only must it pass the Senate, but the House version has to be reconciled to the Senate version. So the Senate may squash this rotten fruit altogether or they may deduct or add to it's rotteness. Quien Sabe?
MH:I can't speak for all Catholics really. My impression is that most people don't give it much thought until a Protestant friend mentions it. The relationship between Catholics, Jesus and Mary is very complex. There is no intent to worship Mary, there is only the need to love her as our Mother and as someone who intercedes between us and Jesus. The bible says that Jesus is the mediator between man and God the Father, and this we believe. But, Mary is a symbol of the Church, the tool that God used to bring our salvation, the perfect example of faith. She is very dear and very important to the Catholic culture in ways that you would not understand nor appreciate. At the same time Jesus is our Savior, our Lord, and our God. He is absolutely indispensible to our worship. Do the Popes seem to go to far in their veneration of Mary? Yes they go too far for my taste, but the point is that they do well to honor her even if too intensely, while y'all...fearing Catholic contamination, honor her not at all. Jesus is like the Sun and Mary is like the Moon. Jesus is the source of light and life. Mary is only a reflection, dependent upon an always pointing back to the Sun. I can love the Sun during the day, and love the Moon at night, but the Sun is the greater light. But you won't understand
Not so Neil and frankly this is the least of my wories, but you made the statement. Your comments made insinuations about me and my ability to understand your posts, my mental abilities and my mental maturity. Big deal!
I said, "But, what fool you people are". I meant to say, "But what fools you people are". The reference to being "stupid" has to do with the "fools", which is not just you, but any SA Fundi who can't grasp who their real enemies are. When you insinuated that giving me more detail would "serve no purpose", thought I would follow suit with the "mental workout" comment. Strickly "Tit for Tat". Do I really need a "license to practice telepathic psychology".
You are a Christian and yet I believe your understanding is incomplete and sometimes heretical. Blaming you is pointless, rather I blame those who knew the truth, yet taught lies...The Reformers. My belief is that Jesus won't count off points for being wrong about some truths. In the fullness of time Christ will bring you where he wants you. Excommunication is not "condemming to Hell" but excluding a sinner from the saving help of the Catholic Church, not a problem for a guy like you I trust? The Council of Trent happened in a period of mutual animosity. But, you are free to hate us for a myriad of reasons.
Quote of the Day: "personal abuse is no substitute for thoughtful argumentation."
Neil:Re your recent comments: "...such a careless reading...","...informing you in more detail would serve no purpose...","...avoid arguing like a thwarted toddler...". What was that about abuse again?
I do agree that the Doctrine of "Justification by Faith Alone" is a heresy and if you understood the truth but held to a heresy the result would, without the Grace of God, be Hell. My "Whining", as you call it, has to do with how the entire Church of Christ, in all it's parts, confronts it's enemies in the 21st century. Notice, this isn't the 16th Century any more, nor should we be acting toward each other as if it were. The Pope and I are not your enemies, Speaker Pelosi, Harry Reid, Obama, and the hords of Leftist's are. You don't want to be involved with us...well I for one, don't want you either, but your enemies are mine and mine are yours....we should act together but stay apart, in order to insure our mutual survival...end of story. I have every right as a Child of God and as a living being to dissent from any teaching.
FCSBG: I get really tired of answering the many erronious notion about Catholicism. We have faith in God only. No good Catholic worships Mary. To be continued....
June: Your appeal to "God's Word" fails to take into consideration your peculiar "Protestant Interpretation" of those words. Jesus states that the "Gates of Hell shall not prevail" against his Church. If you are correct, then Jesus is mistaken or a liar, since early Christianity, which quickly evolved into Catholicism, would have had to succum to the Devil in order for your bunch to rise to the fore.
The Military has never valued "Indivualistic Thinking" in it's Infanty troops, and never have they assumed anything more than basic education. As to physical fitness, they wrote the book on taking "chubby" teenagers and turning them into warriors. What is valued is the ability to "follow orders" and "remember your training". It's all very simple...."kill your enemy before he kills you". The rest is superflous. Now, if the Govt and the Leftists would kindly allow the Military to be militaristic in it's own fashion, then we will be spared seeing gay troops in pink uniforms, marching to battle to the tune of the "YMCA".
Neil: How dare I disagree with your highly vaunted, but vacuous logic, but...please...explain to me, which parts of my post that you are unable to grasp. After reading your response, perhaps you could use a mental work-out. To answer your question flatly---NO! Since when did Protestantism imitate Catholicism or have I dreamed the last 500 years of focused hatred? Please explain how Atheism, Secular Humanism, Paganism, and Islam can be seen as the errant step-children of the Mother of Christianity and Western Civilization? And please no fairy tales.
"...Christians share 0% of the Roman Catholic faith and 0% of their goals... whereas some lesser percentage..."
MyResp: Not only confused logically, but all together, totally, and Galactically wrong.
June: Since Catholicism and G. Orthodoxy precede Fundamentalist Christianity by well over 1500 years, I should think that it would be apparent to anyone but the most blind or fanatic Troglodyte, that if any Gospel is to name the "Other Gospel" it would be yours. There is no Catholic Gospel of "Works Salvation" only the Gospel of "Obedience" to the Lords Commands.
Neil said . . "This is just one of many reasons why no true evangelical should ever join hands with Catholics.
MyResp: And one excellent reason why I will not join hands, or anything else for that matter, with Neil's "Brotherhood of Bigotry". But, what fool you people are. Here we are attacked on all sides by Secular Humanists, Atheists, Pagans, and Islamist Facists and you reject, not just Catholicism, but Orthodoxy as well. Well...have at it, and tell how 10% of Christianity faired against 100% evil. You don't have to agree with beliefs or even have Catholic friends...just quit being stupid and rally with the people who share 90% of your faith and 100% of your goals.
Where's the problem? Either the Virgin Mary will appear and everybody will be surprised or she won't, in which case many will decide not to pay any attention to this dippy clairvoyant in the future.
John Y: Which is more psychotic, to believe in the spiritual care of the Mother of Jesus (please recall the V. of Guadalupe, Lourdes, Fatima, etc.), which is a part of our ancient Faith going back over 800 years, or to knowlingly fake ones attendance at a Church that one has absolutely no faith in? John if your not psychotic you're at least schizophrenic. It's been nice talking to both of you.
Mike of NY: One of our main differences with Protestantism is the question of "When a person is SAVED". As I understand it, many Protestants (My wife is a 5pt Calvinist) believe that accepting Jesus as their "Lord and Savior" is enough to prove that one is "SAVED". Catholic's believe that a person can lose their Salvation by committing a Major sin (Mortal) and failing to make a serious effort to repent and amend their lives. Hence, the need to prove that a departed believer is in God's presense. The persons life is studied, their friends, family, and enemies are interviewed and serveral miracleous happenings must be documented. It usally takes many years. The purpose of all of this is to present a Believer to the Church who is really "SAVED" and who is worthy to have their life immulated by the faithful.