Researcher wrote: "January 3, 1521, Pope Leo X issues the papal bull Decet Romanum Pontificem, which excommunicates Martin Luther from the Catholic Church." Was Luther damned on January 2, 1521 but was saved only after he was barred from communion on January 3, 1521? Therefore only after the Church, itself, excommunicated him by a papal bull -- he was saved?
Researcher; Are you a Roman Catholic?
The Elect were booked for salvation before the foundation of the world. Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will"
John Yurich USA wrote: The Bible makes no reference to the term anti-christ in conjunction with a religious office. The Bible only states Anti-Christ and anti-christs being a man and individuals
John Yurich You seem to be having a problem with english comprehension here. The "Papacy" can only exist as an office "of the Pope." The Reformers were not talking about an empty office which seems to be YOUR understanding of the word!!
1John 2:18 ... and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
The allegation which John makes here is against those who are UNBiblical, therefore "anti" Christ. The Papacy has historically been filled by sinners, eg JPII and Benedict 16, (and there advisers) who encourage heresy, blasphemy and idolatry which of course, are all anti Bible, viz antichrist. Therefore the seat of this evil satanic organisation is the papacy, - which runs the heresy, blasphemy and idolatry. Hence the seat of the antichrist.
The Roman Catholic organisation became such an idolatous, blasphemous deceiver that the Lord ordained the Reformation, whereby He removed His Church and disciples and brought them to Scripture law, precept and doctrines.
John Yurich USA wrote: The Bible only refers to Anti-Christ and anti-christs as a man and individuals and not a religious office. Therefore logically the office of the Papacy can't be anti-christ.
The papacy "religious office" ALWAYS has a man in it!
..... otherwise this "office" could not exist!
The papacy is the antichrist.
Martin Luther "We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist...personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to Antichrist." (Aug. 18, 1520) Taken from The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, Vol. 2., pg. 121"
Thomas Cranmer (Anglican) "Whereof it followeth Rome to be the seat of antichrist, and the pope to be very antichrist himself. I could prove the same by many other scriptures, old writers, and strong reasons." (Referring to prophecies in Revelation and Daniel.) Taken from Works by Cranmer, Vol. 1, pp. 6-7."
Bibliophile wrote: Isn't salvation a work of the will by the grace of Christ alone to have faith in and obedience to Him both today and everyday until He calls us home?
Look Biblio, the Bible teaches Christ can save without human help...
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
1Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Jn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jn 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Jn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Jn 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
1Jn 4:14 14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
And many more confirm Jesus does not need YOUR help to save you!
John Yurich USA wrote: The term anti-christ can not apply to the Papacy since the term anti-christ has to refer to individuals and not to a religous office.
John Yurich You need to understand the word in its broader meaning and context.
Dictionary:- Papacy::- "1. the office, dignity, or jurisdiction of the pope. 2. the system of ecclesiastical government in which the pope is recognized as the supreme head. 3. the period during which a certain pope is in office."
Thus the 'papacy' extends beyond just the papal office to cover the heretical evil output and blasphemous utterings of this satanic organisation.
Thus the present incumbent is antichrist by Satan's use, to fabricate the false church of religious imitation and counterfeit doctrines, aimed at gullible reprobates who collectively become the false witness which is the Roman Catholic institution.
Mike wrote: It is only works based theology if the works are held to be means to salvation. And as you know, per Ephesians 2:8, salvation is the gift of God.
Hello Mike; You still struggling through?
Now what you have to remember is that the whole Roman Catholic religion is infected by their "works based" ideology. Their doctrines and theology are suspended upon the hypothesis that God "needs" mans compliance, else the ultimate reward of salvation is not received by the sinner. It is where they place God in their religion. Look at their idolatrous practice of worshipping dead sinners, (saints and relics). The belief they have towards the mortal is that there is a power within which binds God to "use" them as objects of worship, by the papist. Their erroneous concept of sin is that it does not prevent the sinner from participation in justification, sanctification et al.
Then of course their is the Arminian....
Now Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works" "Faith" is referred to here in opposition to "works" (of man). Whereas salvation cannot be perceived as of human origin, (works) - faith might be by some. Hence the need for this teaching.
"You say that the church now has special protections. Before you voted, we didn't need special protections. We were already protected by the existing law,"
The fact that sodomite unions are voted into law with an adjunct for religious organisations implies that they can be removed at some future date. Their real scheme (or plot) was just to get the law in without too much hassle.
"Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;.... 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them"
Bibliophile wrote: How can the Pope be the Antichrist when he's the most pro-life leader on the planet even protecting the embryo -- truly "the least of these"?
Thats works based theology thinking Bibliophile.
2Cor 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."
Remember Bibliophile that "moral works" are also done by reprobates.
There are many, many crazy ideas out there, what with conspiracy theories and a vast store of theological myths, fallacies, and fictions. But few people take their convictions to the level of mass murders. Thank the Lord.
Breivik took his convictions to the evil level of murder for which Norwegian law will deliver him to prison for 21 years (max)???? Liberal justice!! But he will also spend an eternity in hell suffering in a way that none yet can comprehend.
The power of sin is displayed in this wicked man and should remind the Christian just how powerful and evil it is. Sin is a constant life-long battle which the reprobate has lost, but the Christian must fight only with God's help.
Prov 21:10 The soul of the wicked desireth evil: his neighbour findeth no favour in his eyes
Prov 15:11 Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?
Prov 27:20 Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied
Bibliophile wrote: unbiblical doctrines of Sola Scriptura
Bibliophile, Are you a Gnostic?? Is Roman Catholic theory Gnosticism?
I found this article on Gnosticism which sounds remarkably like the Roman Catholic penchant to go "outside" the Word of God and seek traditions... etc.
"it is common to refer to Gnosticism as an early â€˜Christianâ€™ heresy that stressed privately revealed knowledge above that which is generally available to everyone through the Scriptures.â€™
Note such is the attempt at gaining knowledge (that is a knowledge of spiritual truth and meaning) that exists outside of Godâ€™s revealed truth discovered in the Bible. Remember that we have already said that for the professed Christian, Jesus Christ Himself is all wisdom and knowledge. So, outside of Him there is no such truth or secret knowledge to be gained.
Do we need other methods, ways, means, & techniques (other than what the Bible itself provides and sanctions) to give us insight into the mind and will of God? Or is the Bible alone sufficient? Are there hidden, secret mysteries yet to be got concerning the Person of God? Or has God given us all in His Word the Bible? Why not let the Bible speak for itself." = See 2Timothy 3:16, 17.
Bibliophile wrote: Mega-Church leaders will continue to bend the knee to the Seeker, rather than the Scriptures, and join the growing list of Mainlines who have fallen on the homosexual sword.
Also "Roman Catholics will continue to bend the knee to the papal antichrist, rather than the Scriptures, and join the growing list of idolaters who have fallen on the idolatrous blasphemous sword."
"Ecumenical outlook" Quote; "No lines are drawn at Willow Creek to guard against Charismatic influences. Consequently, there is also an openness to Roman Catholicism. For example, Hybels had a Catholic priest speak to his church on â€˜What Protestants can learn from Catholicsâ€™.
Hybels asked the priest whether he was born again. He answered: â€˜We were born and have grown up, but I think we must repeatedly be born and born again. Not only once, but again and againâ€™. Although staff members asked him repeatedly to correct these unbiblical statements, senior pastor Hybels let them go unchallenged." Evangelical Times 2001
So you are not too far away from Willow Creek, Bibliophile.
John Yurich USA wrote: there is a requirement for salvation because Jesus told Nicodemus that one must become Born Again in order to be saved.
..... the way to become Born Again is for one to pray to Jesus to become their Personal Lord and Savior.
Wrong again John!!
When Jesus was talking to Nicodemas HE also said; "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."
Jesus also states; 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." So the unsaved can "pray" until the cows come home, But saving can only be done by divine hands not mortal.
And don't forget; 4 According as *HE* HATH CHOSEN us in him *BEFORE* THE FOUNDATION of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having *PREDESTINATED* us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will"
Predestinated chosen (elect) Christians are saved BY CHRIST not by human action or requests!
Bibliophile wrote: Reformation theological novums (1) Sola Scriptura. (2) Sola Fide. (3) Private interpretation.
It would appear that I was already writing an answer for you on the other thread. See below!
As for your # 3. "Private interpretation" God has already taken care of that. Quote; "John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
The elect receive the Holy Spirit who works faith in their hearts and provides access to the truth in Scripture.
"Faith ALONE: this is proved as follows:
From the nature of faith itself, because faith is not of ourselves, it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 1:29). It is one of the fruits of the Spirit, and therefore cannot be meritorious (Galatians 5:22). Justifying faith terminates on Christ and in Christ, in his blood and sacrifice, and in the promises of God. Thus it involves trust and dependence, not on one's self, but objectively on Christ. Faith denies it own justifying value, and affirms the sole merit of that on which it trusts (Romans 3:25-26; 4:20-22; Galatians 3:26; Ephesians 1:12-13; 1 John 5:10)"
Bibliophile wrote: (1.) I would encourage all to flee to the RCC.
(2.) You listed doctrines/dogmas. To be fair one could easily argue that the Reformation's key theological novums (e.g., Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, private interpretation) are not biblical.
(1) Biblical Christians cannot attend the Roman Catholic theatre. The indwelling Holy Spirit will not allow them.
(2) Sola Scriptura/Fide are Biblical. - The RCC alternative is "Plus (their) tradition" which as has been proven over centuries is UnBiblical idolatrous rituals and heresy.
For example; 1st Class Relic: a part of the Saint (bone, hair, etc.) and the instruments of Christ's passion 2nd Class Relic: something owned by the Saint or instruments of torture used against a martyr 3rd Class Relic: something that has been touched to a 1st or 2nd Class Relic. You can make your own 3rd Class relics by touching an object to a 1st or 2nd Class Relic, including the tomb of a Saint.
Without a doubt, this is breaking the 2nd commandment and worshipping graven images. Not only that this is pure superstition, without one jot of Biblical foundation or logic. This can only come from false and man-made religions. Not only are relics NOT Biblical but they are ridiculous!
John Yurich USA wrote: And why should I leave the RCC and unite with a Protestant Church when church membership in any church(Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant or Fundamentalist Protestant) is not a requirement for salvation
John Yurich There is NO "requirement" for salvation. Repeat NONE!! Christ saves unworthy sinners. The elect are reconciled and saved by the death and life of Christ. (Rom 5:10)
As for the churches you list The Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox cannot read the Bible!
This is illustrated by the idolatrous practices and stupid relics which they worship and of course the blasphemous mass which they perform. These are satanic heretical practices therefore REAL Christians know NOT to attend these UnBiblical evil rituals.
As this article points out this Lutheran denomination describes the "papacy" as the antichrist which is correct. The various nefarious and satanic rituals such as idolatry of dead people, idolatry of relics such as bits of wood and bodies are pagan type rituals that only an organisation run by antichrist would participate in.
THIS IS NOT (R) NOT WHAT REAL BIBLICAL CHRISTIANS DO!! NOR DO THEY ATTEND SUCH!!