John UK wrote: Hello brother, fellow pilgrim. Yes I do not see how anyone could really hold to a pre-trib rapture. I've certainly never seen it in scripture. From what you've said thus far, I would say that it is the same as I have believed myself. Although I have never gone into it in a depthy way. So you may not be so alone in it as you thought.
Please read Louis Berkhof's Systematic Theology section on the end times. He presents both millennial views (Pre and Post) and then presents a refutation of both. In many ways, this is the best section of his book and worthy of consideration.
If you don't have a hard copy the work is available at:
Michael Hranek wrote: John UK Wow! Have you ever said it my brother! Just dive right into either they're reprobates or if they are elect God will saved them in His own good time without any effort on our parts and one can conviently salve their conscience into doing nothing. Of course there is so much more to all this like....if we get to know people it ought to break our hearts apart from Jesus Christ they are on their way to the eternal hell, the very punishment we so rightly deserved for our sins. Paul, spoke of being a debtor. He had the very and only Good News the lost desperately needed to hear...and he was eagar to share it with them knowing the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation. Sorry if I am rambling I am getting ready to do some traveling. Blessings.
Wayne M., My reply was too long to fit the space, so I had to edit it, and the words "as personal savior" were lost.
John 1:12 is talking about recognizing Jesus as the Christ, the son of David, the Lamb of God, and so forth. You can't have Jesus as savior if you are unwilling to have him as king.
If you look at the passages which talk about salvation, you'll see that salvation is for all of us still in the future, in spite of the fact that we already are justified, for example Romans 5:9. And more than one passage says that it is necessary to persevere or hold fast to the end, for example Hebrews 3:6.
So anyone can start following Jesus, but not all who start are going to continue until the end, so not all of those who start out are going to be saved.
Cbcpreacher, Jesus went about proclaiming and teaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus warned people that they needed to count the cost, so that they would not begin and not be able to finish. Jesus said he who endures to the end shall be saved. On the day of Pentecost Peter told how Jesus had been made Lord and Christ and was seated on the throne of David at the right hand of God. When the people asked Peter what to do, he told them to repent and be baptized. In Thessalonica Paul and Silas were accused of saying that there is another king, Jesus.
Evangelists today don't even mention the Kingdom of Heaven; they don't talk about the cost of discipleship. They don't tell people that they must endure in order to be saved. They don't say that Jesus is already king and is already sitting on the throne. They seldom tell people to repent. They almost never tell people to be baptized. They preach Jesus as savior but not as king.
Evangelists today sometimes give the impression that thet Gospel is "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." But most of the time their version of the Gospel is "Receive Jesus as your personal savior," or "Invite Jesus into your heart." But nowhere in the Bible does it tell people to receive Jesus or to invite Jesu
Always God preserves for himself a remnant; this is declared in Romans 11:5.
But almost all of the historic "revivals" and "awakenings" have been nothing but the product of emotion. They have given rise to cults and denominations, but they have not resulted in lasting beneficial changes in society.
The trouble is that there is hardly anyone anymore who is preaching the Gospel which is taught by the Bible. Everyone is preaching a false Gospel and a false Christ, and the people love it.
There is nothing in America or Europe to revive; there is no Biblical Christianity. What is needed is evangelism. But before that can be successful, the lying preachers need to be swept out of the pulpits and replaced by men who have a true calling of God to the ministry. Among the preachers today, there isn't one in a hundred who is faithful and competent.
Apart from embrace of the Gospel (of which there is but one, namely, the Gospel of the Kingdom of God), there can be no conversion to the Christian Faith -- whether in cinema, theatre, or the "church".
Ironically, the Gospel hardly is to be found today within the realm historically termed "Christendom".