John UK wrote: Chime away Christopher, your posts are always interesting and thoughtful. After looking at Calvin's Commentary this morning, it sure looks like he agrees with me that "preserved in Christ Jesus" is not referring to doctrinal stability.
Looking for support from the commentaries? I thought that the Holy Spirit had spoken to you John. So why the looking for support?
And of all peeps you turn to Frenchy!! How desperate
John UK wrote: 1. Me, I don't have to prove anything. Do you think scripture can be proven, or do you think it must be believed? Besides which, the main difference between you and me today, is that I have been really blessed by a text of scripture and you haven't.
IOW one does not need a correct interpretation of the Bible to be blessed?! You'd make a very good RC
John UK wrote: 2. I think it a grand thing that God preserved me alive before he called me, as he does for every other believer in the world. And I also think it grand that he has preserved me alive for so many years since he called me. Now if you want to be pedantic and play the theologian, maybe you can come up with a verse which says that, and then you can quote it and make yourself very happy. Me, I would far rather have the reality of the experience of the word of God, and see how effective it is. p.s. I hope you don't think every Christian is "preserved" from errors continually. Even the great theologians debate issues like infant baptism. But then, if you're a Presby, the WCF is infallible and accounted higher than scripture.
John UK wrote: ...Put yourself in Jude's boots. If you wanted to say that the sinner was called and then subsequently preserved in Christ Jesus, think of how you would have written it. Then compare with what Jude actually wrote, and you will arrive at the answer, even if it contradicts your faulty theology.
You again assume what you are required to prove!!
He is writing to Christians who had not succumbed to the errors that prevailed at the time, and therefore attributes their preservation to God.
This has nothing to do with pre-conversion preservation.
always wrote: The Word of God is eternal not temporal.
And where did I say anything that suggests otherwise?
John UK wrote: Excellent comments Christopher! Jude 1:1 KJV 1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: Now then, I know that humanly speaking I could well have died in my 20's - mea culpa. But... Sanctified = set apart Set apart in eternity, chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world. Preserved in time.... and then..... Called. The prodigal son comes home, having "come to himself". All "in Christ Jesus".
Don't you have to prove that a temporal order is in mind before you can use it to demonstrate your orthodoxy? Otherwise surely you are guilty of reading into the text what you want out of it!