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John 1. I didn't relize we were discussing Israel. 2. What's wrong with God knowing that their would be a census and knowing that Jesus would be born in Bethleham and the prophesying it? Lets say for example pharouh. God says he hardened his heart when pharouh said the people could go. But God wanting to institute the Passover hardened his heart. Now think about this... After the tenth plague where pharouh loses his son he says okay leave! But after they have left he still chases after them. So what I think is that pharouh would have chased them after the first plague if he had let them go. I say God knew this and used it to fulfill his plan. Therefore since he knew pharouh would harden his heart it does not make him unjust to harden pharouhs heart. Does that make sense haha Hard to explain when your not in person! And I'm pretty sure I spelt pharouh wrong:/
Ps. Want to make sure you and anyone else to know that my intention is to discuss with people and not to fight.
Fbh It is never my intention to demote God. Hebrews 3
15While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. So some in the past hardened their hearts and we are told not to. Very clearly there is a choice to be made. Some will choose to obey him and many will harden their hearts.
If you think I'm serving a man made God by the way I think then tell me what you think I should think. Obviously you disagree so you must have a different understanding of it however limited it is.
Christopher what you said is perfectly right. God chose those who he knew would choose him. Foreknowledge means foreknowledge. The Calvinist has to do away with the word foreknowledge or change its meaning otherwise their theory doesn't make sense, I'm not sure why the Calvinist has such a hard time admitting that God would know who would follow him and choose those. It makes perfect sense. I don't know about you but I am not a robot. I am a human being created in Gods image and very much capable of making choices.
John what dictionary are you reading anyway that says foreknowledge means "fore loved"
I know God is still in charge. I'm not trying to act as if I'm bigger than God because I am not! I am a vile sinner saved only by grace! Praise God he has made a way for us poor sinners to get to heaven!! This is what's glorious! And now God says In Acts 17
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
ALL MEN Some will and many wont! Why? because some will be obedient and many will be disobediant. A child must choose to obey his parents otherwise there are consequences. A child that chooses not to obey will suffer consequences. Is that so hard to figure out?
Lurker My assurance lies in the finished work of Christ! I understand that Christ does everything to save us but what I don't agree with is that he made me get saved because I was chosen. Consider eve in the garden.. If she was totally deprived then she would have not needed to be deceived because her evil heart would have done it anyway.
You keep on saying how God is not getting his due glory.
I say God gets more glory when man chooses to obey him rather than God choosing a random person and making that person obey him. The latter makes God look like a dictater
I believe God chose those that would choose him because if not then I can never have the assurance of my salvation! I know I am saved because I believe
If God chooses the people who will follow him why in the world did he let Adam sin?? Sending his son was a sacrifice for him and he did it because he loved all of mankind!! Why would God go through all the trouble of creating everyone? Why not only create the elect and live happily ever after?
I know I said I rest my case but I can't help myself
Cv you said you walk by faith. How can u a mere man walk by faith? I thought the Calvinistic view didn't allow for action on mans part ( not a good one anyway). You know is the t in tulip an all that. Please don't quote eph 2:8 in your reply because my reading of that particular verse differs than that of the Calvinist Can you show me elsewhere in scripture that man is incapable of making a good choice like repenting and believing and through that being saved? Ps I'm not wanting to come across as the enemy but as a brother In Christ with an interest on the subject
People shouldn't box things. Cv you imply that arminion faith is fake right? Just because someone DECIDED to repent because he read the bible and saw that the action required for salvation was repentance and faith doesn't mean that his faith is fake. I am on a middle road. A Christian does not have to decide whether he wants to be a Calvinist or an arminionist they both have truth and we will not come to a conclusion on a Internet thread. I rest my case