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John UK wrote: Quite likely DD. And why not? Mike and I have serious disagreements, yet we have respect for one another, as brothers in Christ, and will stand together in heaven, even though the godly Calvinist George Whitefield, when asked if he expected to see John Wesley also in heaven, replied, "No I do not expect to see John Wesley in heaven, as I rather think he will be so much nearer the throne of God than I." Now if you could just imbibe a little of that humility, you could do well.
It was said tongue in cheek John, hence the after the post.
I know from following the postings that you and Mike get on well despite your differences.
Just struck me that that was a nuance of his post you did not address.
From the Book wrote: Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken ***YOUR MORTAL BODIES*** by his Spirit that dwelleth in you
"shall also" -- future event- referring to the resurrection!!
From the Book wrote: From historic Reformed Christian Biblical Doctrine... WCF 13/1. ...b the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed....... 2. This sanctification is throughout in the whole man,....
Sanctification is a moral resurrection. The use of the term "body" in the WCF is not referring to the physical body!
You need to study some more before writing another word on a subject on which you know nothing.
From the Book wrote: Rubbish! The suggestion that the body and the spirit do not both serve God's purpose in life is incomplete. The heart and mind are 'body' and when regenerated serve the Lord, whereas prior to saving cannot serve. In that respect both are regenerated to new life and purpose IN Christ. Re Heart and mind. In transition from 'dead in sin' to 'life IN Christ' a change is effected in the body which is why/how sanctification becomes a process in the saved sinner - and is obvious by its very absence in the reprobate. There is a requirement for the body of the saved to be affected by regeneration to counter the inherent and continued power and dominion of sin. This is called the struggle and is found within the Christian and their new life in Christ. Sanctification:- a) God changing me. b) What God does in me. c) Christ at work in me by the Holy Spirit changing my life, whereby the body is the 'Temple' of the Spirit. Regeneration changes all of me, by the immense power of grace and the Holy Spirit, not just the spirit of me. And whilst on earth I do not separate the body and spirit which God created with inherent power by and for divine purpose.
From the Book wrote: In relation to the original post below "Quicken" (made alive in Greek) the verse is... Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)" And others eg ... John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will." John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." The UNsaved are spiritually DEAD. Therefore the quickening process is related to spiritual life - Life IN Christ. The body then is the "home" (NB Temple of 'THE' Spirit) of our new empowered spirit 'regenerated' ie born again. Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you" 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
But the body is not born again, and so your original statement was plain wrong!!
John UK wrote: 1. No. 2. No. I would certainly not wish to squeeze this text into a mould of my own making, just to make sure the mould stays intact. But hey, if you want to give me the mould-preserver explanation, feel free to do so. You know you're itching to show me. If it's the John Gill version, I already read that about 30 years ago. And then.... Romans 10:21 KJV 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
I am no mould squeezer - sorry to disappoint you. Who is John Gill?
Mike wrote: Not pleased my foot. Displeasure is a response. The preferred theology doesn't allow for God to be responding to what men choose to do.
As always, excellent point Mike!
John UK wrote: It's a very fair point Mike, and I have no immediate answer to it. But I will certainly prayerfully consider it. The same thing would also apply to the arminist position, which has conditional election. If God foresaw faith in a man, and knew the exact moment, why would it say he was patient/longsuffering?
Well John, have you got an answer for this conundrum yet? Or have you concluded that the verse makes no sense and should therefore be ignored?