There's nothing specifically wrong with it, John, but you would have to be able to step outside of yourself, as a 3rd party, and look in to see the big picture and understand it. Everybody needs Christian friends. We learn from them, grow with them, and they help to keep us in sync, both mentally and spiritually. You asked once, "who needs friends?" We all need Christian friends. I know you are ultra shy, John, but you really could use a few, as we all do.
Jer 1:5...thanks for the extra verse, Steve. I really don't know how anyone can deny that they go to Heaven. Deut 1:39 didn't make a lot of sense to me either as far as the topic goes, but the speaker quoted it as evidence so I thought you guys would apply it somehow. By the way, I'm liking the new side of you...I've been following your conversations with Lisa as well. She has been sharp at times but you rolled with it each time.
Thanks John...I really didn't expect much as far as answers, I guess. I am curious to hear others thoughts on this though. Really thought provoking when you spend some time thinking hard about it and it's fun to imagine the different scenarios...and maddening. I guess I would agree with you in that everything happens at conception. I was wondering if God does it Himself because He knows us so personally/intimately. Like a parent, I thought maybe he would choose to put the life into out bodies. Thanks for your comment.
Some time ago, while commenting in an abortion thread, I said something to the effect, "those poor innocent babies". Well, this ignited a small firestorm as to whether or not babies and small children go straight to Heaven. I had people posting who don't normally post saying that they go to hell, they are not innocent, and one lady talking about how when she looks at her children, she considers how wicked and depraved they are, which I thought was odd for a mother. I know we are all born into sin, but when I called them innocent, I was speaking to their lack of sin at such a young age. Sin nature...yes. Will they sin, given the opportunity...yes. Have they sinned yet...no. Anyway, the conversation grew legs and became an argument as to whether or not aborted babies, delivered babies, and young children go straight to Heaven. To my surprise, several said they were condemned and go straight to hell. This never sat well and what a horrible thought. Anyway, I was listening to a quick clip of something just yesterday which addressed this. Can anyone who believes babies and young children don't go to Heaven comment on II Sam 12:21 and Deut 1:39? Maybe there are others. Anyone can comment. This has bothered me since that dark discussion when some said they are all condemn
...if DNA has nothing to do with the creation of our invisible spirits, then God must create them and personally place them into the physical body at some point. Unless He has angels do it but I would think He would do it personally. Maybe.
Ha-ha...I thought my posts may have been a bit too much to tackle, but first... Interesting conversation about the blind since they can't see the witness of creation. I guess they would still think to themselves though, "were did we come from?...even though I can't see it, how did all of this stuff get here, etc. What I wonder more about are the blind AND deaf, the mentally challanged, and those who have suffered brain injuries which almost always make people aggressive and mean. I always wonder how complications like these are sorted out. So, let me shorten up my posts with some questions that I always wonder about: Our spirit (the real, eternal "us"...created before or at conception? Created and placed into the body at first breath? Created along with the physical parts by the DNA that science can't find a use for? Does the Bible say whether or not our spirits have always been somewhere just waiting for a body or when/how they are created? I believe a baby goes to Heaven if he/she dies so the spirit must be created or placed within at conception or while in the womb at some point. I know this post doesn't sound all that intelligent but I'm trying to compress a lot into a few lines. If DNA has nothing to do with creating our invisible spirits, then God Himself mus
Hi John, in order to have a small church group meet at your home in the US, there are rules to follow. You either need to be zoned, or a permit is required...I forget which. The group can meet on the sly, but a homeowner advertised by posting signs for say, Thursday night Bible studies, an athiest neighbor didn't like the idea, called the town, and what do ya know...there are permit/zoning laws, rules/regulations for home Bible study groups to meet in a regular basis.
...First of all, like "vestigal" organs, I don't agree with their assessment of there being no purpose for these "junk" genes. What do you all think about the thought that the genes just haven't had a need to be activated yet? Since nothing is ever truly destroyed, but transformed into energy, maybe these genes play a role in our future bodies, our resurrection, our abilities once transformed after death, etc? We are spiritual beings travelling within a temporary vehicle made of flesh and bone; powered by blood pumping through a heart that beats mysteriously without battieries or any sort of power source. A baby is conceived when a sperm fertilizes an egg. My question is: we can explain the physical processes, but where does the real "us"; our spirit come from and when are we assigned to our bodies? Has our spirit always been around, waiting for a body to inhabit, or could one of those "junk" genes be the author of our spirit bodies? Is the spirit created at the moment of conception or does God assign it a body when we take our first breath? I know these questions can't be answered, I guess, but I just always wonder about these things. I wonder if our genes play a role in creating our spirits or if God creates and plants us at some point. Hmmm.
I forget where the verses are but they are probably mentioned within the thread somewhere. Maybe one of them is when God was speaking to Job? Anyway, I love the scientific foreknowledge mentioned throughout the Bible...it filled with it. The ancients knew things that we simply re-discovered. Back on track...what I was getting to are the verses that talk about the invisible things that God created. Like Neil mentioned, there is a long laundry list of invisible things, but I always tend to consider the physical, naked to the eye, examples when pondering these things. I think of the "simple" cell that turns out not to be so simple. This "simple" cell has a world of mechanics and visible gears within it. I think of many other things like bacterium, atoms, molecules, and the like, but what amazes me above all is the human genome and the fact that we have been able to map some of it. What I think about are the parts of the human gene labelled by science as junk; useless DNA; serving no perceivable purpose. Hmmm.
@Whatdoyouknow...thanks for clearing that up...I should have caught it, and John, I'm glad you didn't understand either. Whenever this person comes at me, I can't even express how underwhelmed I am by the content of his posts. I always have to read most of them several times and then I still don't get them. A true Jekyl and Hyde who uses one name to speak softly to deceive and another to deride, accuse, and condemn. There is only one person here who, since I have been around, has used the phrase, "ad hominem" on a semi-regular basis. A true Christian...I think not. Amazing how self rightous some are, to a level of delusion, never realizing that they are venemous snakes with their hearts pumping black sludge through their veins. I guess I'm rambling...I just don't have any respect for cowards.
I didn't know that quote originated with John MacArthur. I heard Chuck Missler use it, giving credit to Chuck Smith. Funny how things get around. Yeah, interesting that a Queen song would be quoted considering the headline. Freddy Mercury...now there was a flamer (not shy, flamboyant) by my dictionary.
I really don't even know what you all are talking about or trying to say. Am I being complimented or insulted? Are you trying to say I'm not saved or something? I recognized myself...I'm not from someone who claims to be Christ-like, the Bible warns about people like me? I don't get any of this.
Well, no, but that word was meant for a single, solitary post made to JohnUK, in which he replied, "What nonscense and baloney". "oooh" is obviously being unnecessarily sharp and sarcastic in the posts to John and Michael. Yes, actually, I am familiar with both sides because I followed the arguments very closely in the recent past. Can I jump in and give my two cents either way though? Nope.