Argh. Watched another forensic files last night about a 4yr old little girl. I won't give any details but it kept me from getting any sleep last night, so that was the last one. Way too depressing. Anyway, does the bible actually speak about an age of accountability or is it just something that Christians assume because children are just too young to understand? I'm assuming most Christians believe children who die go to Heaven but I always wonder when children are no longer considered children and held accountable. I would assume it's on a by child basis rather than any specific age as everyone understands and matures, etc at different levels. (?)
I've done as much research on these as a person can do and the bottom line is that the jury is out. Nobody knows if there are potential long term dangers even though the chemical compositions pale in comparison to a regular cigarette. The conclusions are a bit odd to me because there are a few chemicals in them besides nicotine, with one of the being propylene glycol which is being inhaled. Now, this particular chem along with parabins is left out of natural soaps, creams, shampoos, beauty aids, etc because of the long term epidural absorbtion dangers. I consider this when reading that e-cigs contain the same chemical contained in anti-freeze only instead of being absorbed by the skin, it's being inhaled directly into the lungs and blood stream. Can't be good long term but nobody seems to be addressing it.
Mike Wrote: "Any group which in the least way seems somehow in opposition to the desires of the sexually disoriented is considered a hate group. Of course it is the latter who are the hate group,.."
So simple, but so true, Mike. I always find it interesting how two different people, for example, can look at the same exact thing, and be equipped with the same parallel information to study it,¬†dissect, and understand it yet walk away with two completely polar opposite conclusions/views.
Jim, whenever I hear of children being slaughtered, it rips me apart and effects me for days. I can't comprehend it whether carried out by Muslims, Americans,, or Russian sex traffickers, etc. Last night I was watching forensic files. The case was about 4 girls, 6yrs and 10yrs old walking home from playing. One of the 10yr olds was carrying the 6yr old across a puddle when suddenly a pickup truck swerved off the road and hit the girls. The truck kept going as the girls layed on the side of the road. The cute as ever 6yr old, someones daughter, granddaughter, neice, sister was hit in the back, dying instantly. A year later, the 53yr old man responsible was found and convicted. The reason I mention any of this is because the show flipped back and forth showing the autopsy photos which were beyond heartbreaking and I immediately thought of the familys of all those slaughtered children and every family who suffers the senseless loss of a child. Just a weak spot for me. I try to reconcile it all by assuming they are in Heaven; spared by tragedy.
Thanks James. Aside from the Benny Hinns of the world who I believe sound sincere on stage but then leave and are indistinguishable from anyone else until their next gig, there are many who really seem to love God, but put their own spin on things and that's what I don't understand. By all appearances, , they love God, His Word, live rigthously, etc, yet stray so far from His Word. A few examples would be Charismatics in general, the holy laughter nonscense, slaying in the Spirit, and so on. Just thinking out loud more than anything else, I guess. I just don't get why they bother dedicating their lives to God and adopt such foolishness at the same time; foolishness that is so clearly unbiblical. Like you said, maybe its the look at me syndrome and everyone wants to believe they are in closer contact with God than the preachers down the road, and.receiving "new" revelations. I don't know...it.all seems crazy because they all should know better.
Good response, John, although, it's been said so many times before. John, it's never been about any particular church. Rather, it's about attending a bible only believing church and leaving a system that adds to and takes away from God's Word in so many proud, blatant ways. Most of what they teach directly contradicts God's own Word and THAT is why no genuinly born again Christian belongs within that system. Whether or not they recite the Lord's prayer and recite some scripture doesn't matter when weighed against all they teach. Sorry, but Roman Catholic doctrine, dogmas, and various rituals are straight from the pit of hell. I don't think I've ever been quite that blunt, but nevertheless, truth is truth.
Sad, sad story this morning. I can't imagine killing, period, but to willfully, and gleefully kill children and boast about ones success afterwards as they drink and toast to the slaughter? Hmmm. Really incomprehensible to me. I understand a fallen, mostly Godless world, but every man and woman on planet earth knows right from wrong and murder just isn't a quality that's built into us. We're all capable of it, like anything else, I guess, but I think it really takes a whole other level of depravity to carry it out, especially on children. Like anything else, I suppose it's easier after that first time, and as one hardens, I guess nothing is off limits as emotions die.
1517 writes: Christopher, It is a massive undertaking to understand our salvation, of which we will forever contemplate.
Thanks 1517 Ladybug Wrote: "...never would someone who's been quickened by God refuse to believe and confess. So, it isn't a choice at all. It's God drawing, God quickening, God gifting with faith."
Thanks, that helps. I think Frank said something similar as well. I wonder how it is that so many who seemingly devoted their lives to God will be rejected in the end. Because they continued to live in sin? Because they added to or took away from His Word? Why even bother? I don't get it. Every one of them believes they are genuinly born again and heaven bound. They also still believe in God, the contents of the bible, the resurrection, etc, but how if they weren't "quickened" as well to a believing faith?. Do they lose their salvation after "deciding" to do things their way even though their conversion may have been genuine? Lastly, many, well, most maybe are able to give the time, day, and year they were born again. Why is the day/time memorable if no decision was made to walk away from the world? God quickening seems like it's something that would happen gradually; morphing with our own thoughts and beliefs without our even being aware of i
Thanks a lot, Mike. You know, I have read along with these threads over time and I must have some sort of a mental block...something I'm just not comprehending. For example, the verbs in the verses you quoted: (you must) believe and confess...this is an action on our parts. Now, I do believe that we can't possibly come to a saving faith without God, but it jusy seems to me that we have the ability to accept or reject either that knowledge itself, or living the Christian life that's expected to follow. Now, I don't care ti be taken to task by anyone over my comments because this is just an area that I am having a very difficult time with...the "we do nothing" part. I don't know...I guess I consider the free will aspect of our lives as well. Like anything else, if we don't decide something on our own, wouldn't that make us programmed robots? Why would we have free will in every decision we make throughout life, but are pre programmed to salvation (thank God, of course), but I just can't seem to reconcile it, especially when reading the verses below. I know, big, difficult questions, well, maybe not difficult for those who seem to comprehend it all so well...
Frank Wrote: "Thanks Chris, but I also don't believe in decisional salvation..."
I wouldn't say I believe in it either, but will admit that I'm on the fence and is why I listen closely. For me, it's a very confusing topic and is the way I was taught, but thank God He gave me an open mind that is willing to look at facts,¬†no matter what I might want to believe or what might sound good to me, etc.
Frank, what a moving prayer. I stumble with prayer, sounding foolish and broken most of the time. By broken, I mean all over the place. Sometimes it will flow and those are the times I feel that I am being led to oray for specific things/people, etc. Hope you all ave a good day.
Thanks for the explanations below. This is a very difficult thing to me and it almost seems (to me) like there should be something between Arminianism and Calvinism. I stipl don't quite understand the arguments below. For example, John seems to agree with Calvinism, and Revealing seems to be against Arminianism. John says we don't choose, and Revealing says God chooses us, so all appear in agreement to me. Maybe this is too deep for my little brain...ha-ha. How do I make a scratching head emoticon anyway?
carl haydock from england writes: Glad to know im not alone. :-) i get deep depression from time to time,every time is harder.
No, you're far from alone, Carl. I often wonder why depression is so rampant within the Christian community when you would think just the opposite should be true. I don't know hpw long you've been reading, but depression has been discussed a lot...thanks to me, mostly...ha-ha. Anyway, I suffer from serious depression...without any breaks and iit's very difficult but I get through somehow. Mornings are pretty good from after the 1st half hour, and for about an hour after that which is when I post here. I disappear for the remainder of the day because it's all down hill from there. My dad killed himself over depression, Carl, and if I wasn't born again, I would be long dead...for certain. I don't know if there are particulars to your depression, but if there are and need to chat...I've led a very, very interesting life and I can't think of anything anyone has been through that I haven't and I've survived it all several times over. Now, I'm no spiritual, all knowing guru but I do know the bible, and can relate with real world experience to anything you might have been, or are going through which is always a comfort and useful to know how someone
Poor, poor children. I woke up way too early this AM and thought about this as I layed there. I always try to put myself in their position; scared, helpless, weak,...crying for someone to help them. Help that never comes as they are attacked, beaten, abused, and sold or kept as slaves. I can't imagine how many children, at this very moment, would jump into our arms crying if we had the means to crash through the doors and rescue them. So hard to be utterly and completely helpless. : (
Sorry to jump in, but here's what I struggle with when following these topics: If we don't make a personal decision to believe in and live for Christ, etc, then that means He chose who He would from the beginning and opened the eyes of those He chose; drawing them to Him, whether they would have liked it or not(I guess). Anyway, the part I struggle with, if we don't decide to follow Him, is that it means God chose some and rejected most who would never even have a chance. He chose a few to be with Him for eternity, while creating the rest to be destroyed; being rejected from the beginning. Not looking to argue about anything because I just don't understand it all, but unless I believe we make a decision to believe in and follow Him, and he just knew who would from the beginning, I just don't get making a concious decision to condemn so many. I'm glad I was chosen, of course, but it seems that most were born to be destroyed if we have no part in deciding to follow Him. Just wondering about it all.
RD, unfortunately, even many so called Christians have been seduced into this sort of thinking...even pastors. They have been seduced by misty eyed pleas for equality and the junk science that has convinced the masses that they were not born that way..."it's not a choice". Well, according to God, it most certainly is. Even if someone is predisposed to sodomy (which I have problems with), like any other sin, they are expected to resist and stop, just like the rest of us who have had to conquer demons. God condems sodomy throughout the old and new testaments so your feelings on the matter defy a particular law that God is very, very serious about.
"Pope John Paul II appeared to reverse Pius in 1990 when he proclaimed that animals do have souls and are ‚Äúas near to God as men are."
"Theologians cautioned that Francis had spoken casually, not made a doctrinal statement."
I understand how attached people get to their loyal, always happy, affectionate "friends". I would imagine a person who was void of a soul as deeply evil, primal, instinctual, and incapable of emotion. then, there are the "soulless" animals such as dogs, for instance, and even Parrots, eyt, which seem to display emotional responses such as happiness, depression, fear, obediance, wanting to please, etc. I know they don't have souls but I always wonder what explains these qualities. Anyway, anything these popes say, even out of the chair, is usually taken as gospel and is oart of the reason the church is so diluted with hereises