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Alan H wrote: What Greek text are you using? In the AV, the word which has that underlying Greek Word the most is the word "which." WHAT GIVES??? 2Th 2:6 "And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time."
Not quite sure where you are coming from??
Strongs reference number for the word "what" (the word in question) is G3588. Which provides....
G3588 ὁ, ἡ, τό ho hē to ho, hay, to The masculine, feminine (second) and neuter (third) forms, in all their inflections; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom): - the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc. __________
I agree 3588 may sometimes be given as "which" (or even what) - together with 3748, 3739 etc. ____________
My point in this verse is that it is translated "what" (5101, 3739, etc) but is defined as the definite article as stated above. However the "english" sense of the verse requires "what"
DavidD1960 wrote: however in my KJV they are always in italics.There in this verse all the words are in bold character. Also my Bible gives the Greek word "katecho". The reformers of old all understood this "what" to be the Roman empire,and the "he" of verse 7 to be the emperor.And the Antichrist to be the pope.
I agree with the "italics" point of course. Why in this case they did not apply this rule I don't know. Perhaps because instead of just adding a word - they replaced one, to make english sense??
Matthew Poole the Puritan suggests that Paul is being deliberately obscure here. In verse 6 Paul refers to "a thing" whereas in verse 7 he refers to a "person" But continues to say that this thing/person would be removed eventually. Poole and Calvin both refer to the Roman Empire idea. But Calvin does not accept it. He thinks that Paul was referring to the passage of the Gospel in history until the whole world was convicted. Quote:: "Paul declared that the light of the gospel must be diffused through all parts of the earth before God would thus give loose reins to Satan"... OR the power of the Roman Empire stood in the way of the rise of Antichrist..."(Calvin cmntry)
DavidD1960 wrote: If,as you say,the Holy Spirit cannot be called an "it",then it stands to reason that He cannot be called a "what"either If we agree on this,then a lot of peoples eschatology will need to change. I'm referring to 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 Your NASB version agrees with my KJV by stating "what" in verse 6,and then in verse 7 states "he". Do you agree? Please answer my inquiries.
David You have picked an unusual piece of translation here.
The Greek words do not have "what" in this spot. The Greek word at this point usually is translated - "the" in english. Thus v6...would read... "6 And now ye know *THE* withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time."
Which as you can see doesn't work in english. But We can see that the NASB (and the NIV) follows this method.
Sometimes english words have to be added to make "english" sense of a phrase, to english readers.
Michael I will credit you with optimism if however somewhat misplaced. Your words don't match up with the predictions eg Matthew chapter 24! The churches experience historically, today and until judgement day will always be one of affliction in an alien country.
Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
1Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:  Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same AFFLICTIONS are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
2 Corinthians 1:5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ
cbcpreacher Revival is not going to happen during the current perilous times. We are heading into another dark age where Amos's "famine of hearing the word" is the zeitgeist for now. This is a time of trial and tribulation for the True Christian servant.
2Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Psalm 119:71 It is good for me that I have been afflicted; that I might learn thy statutes.
Psalm 119:75 I know, O LORD, that thy judgments are right, and that thou in faithfulness hast afflicted me.
## prayer for church = Psalm 143: 7 Hear me speedily, O LORD: my spirit faileth: hide not thy face from me, lest I be like unto them that go down into the pit. 8 Cause me to hear thy lovingkindness in the morning; for in thee do I trust: cause me to know the way wherein I should walk; for I lift up my soul unto thee. 9 Deliver me, O LORD, from mine enemies: I flee unto thee to hide me. 10 Teach me to do thy will; for thou art my God: thy spirit is good; lead me into the land of uprightness. 11 Quicken me, O LORD, for thy name's sake: for thy righteousness' sake...
""Once we have overcome self, we have overcome the flesh, the world, and the devil.""
"WE" have overcome???
John 16:33 "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."
Rom 7:24 "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."
2Cor 12:9 "And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."