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11/21/09 10:07 PM Lurker    • Posted 1 hour ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments Alan H wrote: Lurker, May I enter a few observations about this particular phrase... All very good observations with which I agree but they don't address the point of contention which John and I were discussing; that is, what comes after "the end of the world". It was asserted that the eternal state of glory in the new heaven and earth comes after and for that reason the word "world" was best suited for this phrase as the KJV has it rather than "age" used in some of the more recent translations. This is what I had hoped to portray when I wrote: "Is it the end of time and history with the eternal state of glory following or is it the end of an age with another temporal age following?" If you have some thoughts I'd be interested to read them but as for me; I've already made my case with John and I'm not inclined to do it again. What John chooses to do with the contradictions I pointed out that his view encounters, which was the sole purpose of my entry into this discussion, is between him and the Lord. Blessings. 11/21/09 6:33 PM Mike  | New York    • Posted 5 hours ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments John UK wrote: --- When Jesus ascended into heaven, his promised presence came by way of his Spirit, the Holy Ghost. When the Bible teaches the "mystery", it is "Christ in you, the hope of glory", but it is not Christ in you, but the Spirit of Christ. --- Oh dear, John. Christ in you is not Christ in you? Do you think Paul would agree? 11/21/09 3:55 PM John UK  | Wales    • Posted 8 hours ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments Radish wrote: Having said that John, what then is the difference between Christ and the Holy Spirit, being as they are in complete harmony....... Radish, me ol' turnip You might just as well ask "What is the difference between Christ and The Father, or between the Father and the Spirit? Let's go back to basics shall we? There was a time when God, the triune God, was Spirit. Father, Son and Holy Ghost - ALL Spirit. All right so far? But the Son was made flesh. God took human flesh to himself, clothed himself with our clay, partook of all that we are, yet without a sinful nature. In this way, he could not only atone for the sins of the world, but also be a faithful and understanding high priest. Did he relinquish his omnipresence as the Son? Is the Spirit of Christ omnipresent? Is the Father omnipresent? When Jesus walked this earth, did he perfectly represent the Father? Is the Spirit's aim to glorify CHRIST? Three Persons, distinct yet one, co-equal and co-eternal, the Holy Trinity. As for your question, Radish, I'm sorry but I have no answer for you apart from that. What I have witten I have witten. You see now? 11/21/09 2:58 PM Alan H  | Washington State    • Posted 9 hours ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments Lurker wrote: Alan, I considered a brief synopsis of our discussion but will settle for this. "the end of the world" (Matt 28:20) Is it the end of time and history with the eternal state of glory following or is it the end of an age with another temporal age following? ...it is my intent to take my ease once again seeing I have a few years on both of you young men. Lurker, May I enter a few observations about this particular phrase, while respecting your seniority, of course? First, the Greek word "aion" translated "world" in this verse must "first" be kept in the immediate context of this verse to correctly understand what Jesus is saying here. Secondly, the Greek word "aion" refers to "an unspecified period of time," and "that period of time" is defined within the context of this verse as, "unto the end of the world." Thirdly, the context of the verse also suggests the reason for his presence, i.e, "they were to teach and preach," which would bring persecution; they could neither bear nor endure without his enabling presence. (See also vs 18) Lastly, "this limited time period" does not invalidate any other time period mentioned elsewhere in Scripture. "Aion" is translated "ever" more often than "world." 11/21/09 2:23 PM Radish    • Posted 9 hours ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments John UK wrote: When Jesus says, "Lo, I am with you alway..." he is not saying that he, as the Son of God, will be with them. No, not at all. When Jesus ascended into heaven, his promised presence came by way of his Spirit, the Holy Ghost. When the Bible teaches the "mystery", it is "Christ in you, the hope of glory", but it is not Christ in you, but the Spirit of Christ. Having said that John, what then is the difference between Christ and the Holy Spirit, being as they are in complete harmony. Is their "physical" distance between them when both exist in the spiritual realm? Is their a "real" distance between heaven and creation in terms of spiritual realm? Or are we part of the spiritual realm but with a material existence? Is mans spirit part of the spiritual realm? We can add here that hell is part of the spiritual realm even though not part of heaven. BTW John, we shall require a complete and factual, accurate, genuine and precise expert spiritual answer to all this. 11/21/09 12:32 PM John UK  | Wales    • Posted 11 hours ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments Mike wrote: ",I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world." After the end of the world, what? No more "with you"? Mike, I will try to explain, When Jesus says, "Lo, I am with you alway..." he is not saying that he, as the Son of God, will be with them. No, not at all. When Jesus ascended into heaven, his promised presence came by way of his Spirit, the Holy Ghost. When the Bible teaches the "mystery", it is "Christ in you, the hope of glory", but it is not Christ in you, but the Spirit of Christ. When God says, "I will never leave thee nor forsake thee", how does he accomplish that in this present world? Surely by his Spirit. When a man is born again, he is indwelt with and filled with the Spirit of Christ, and this is why his character is changed. This Spirit is transforming... But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Acts 1:8 KJV This is what Jesus was talking about when he said, "Lo I am with you alway..." But this empowering will not be needed in eternity. Yes? 11/21/09 12:07 PM Lurker    • Posted 11 hours ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments ErnieG wrote: [...] Those were the comments I was referring to. If the person is teachable and listening, that is not wasting our time whether here or on the street. Thanks for your response and clarification. I agree. There comes a point in every discussion when an assessment must be made of the profit of continuing. Blessings. 11/21/09 11:54 AM Poiuy    • Posted 12 hours ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments Mike wrote: ",I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world." After the end of the world, what? No more "with you"? Exactly Mike. Instread of Jesus being "with you" - WE will be "with Him." No longer at enmity and Spiritually as well as in all other ways, reconciled by God. Romans 5.10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11/21/09 10:50 AM Mike  | New York    • Posted 13 hours ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments John UK wrote: --- #5c He promises his presence to gospel heralds RIGHT UP TO the TIME when the gospel WILL BE HEARD NO MORE. Which is the END, the END of THE WORLD. The End ",I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world." After the end of the world, what? No more "with you"? 11/21/09 7:01 AM ErnieG    • Posted 16 hours ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments Lurker, "It is my honest opinion that when there is contention in the heart of two persons debating, there are two things which generally result. Most people would claim only one problem exits, that being, that one side is unwilling to listen; but I am convinced, and these Sermon Audio threads have thoroughly persuaded me of this fact, that not only does that attitude cause the person listening to shut his ears (rather his understanding, or perhaps his willingness to understand), but it also affects the person speaking in such a manner as causes him to communicate in an unclear manner. "Communication is the exchange of ideas, but there is no profit as long as those ideas are rejected. And often they are rejected because they explode upon impact." Those were the comments I was referring to. If the person is teachable and listening, that is not wasting our time whether here or on the street. Lurker, I did tell JD he could make better use of his time rather than have his head "spinning" all the time debating. Hopefully they have all found better ways to serve the Lord than an endless debate. Christians should be edifying each other not "combating" as we don't know who else reads these comments. Thank you for responding kindly. May God bless you. 11/21/09 5:05 AM John UK  | Wales    • Posted 18 hours ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments Beloved brethren #1 It seems to me that the commencement of the planet earth in its physical form was at the creation of the universe. #2 Man was created perfect, and had no need of a gospel redemption, because he was perfect and experienced perfect fellowship with his creator. #3 Man soon sinned, and God soon provided a blood sacrifice for atonement. #4 From that day to this, a blood atonement has been preached by God's men (and women), and humans have been redeemed by the blood of Christ, whether OT saints or NT saints, through faith in blood. #5a There comes a time when this gospel of blood will cease, and never be preached again. We live in what is called 'the day of grace', which is a period of time during which God's grace is manifested outwardly by preaching (to all men), and manifested inwardly by God's Spirit (to his elect). #5b The wonderful promise in Matthew 28:20 made by the Lord Jesus, is that when his people go out into the world with the gospel, either preaching, tracting, talking, delivering literature etc., HE WILL BE WITH THEM!! Literally, spiritually, WITH THEM!! Hallelujah!! #5c He promises his presence to gospel heralds RIGHT UP TO the TIME when the gospel WILL BE HEARD NO MORE. Which is the END, the END of THE WORLD. The End 11/21/09 2:00 AM Lurker    • Posted 21 hours ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments Alan, I considered a brief synopsis of our discussion but will settle for this. "the end of the world" (Matt 28:20) Is it the end of time and history with the eternal state of glory following or is it the end of an age with another temporal age following? This was the point where I entered the discussion. That said, I believe John and I are done here so it is my intent to take my ease once again seeing I have a few years on both of you young men. . . . Ah, It's ErnieG, an ally of JD, Mark B. Lawless and Bro. Williams. Why is it that you never reprimanded any of them for foolishly wasting their time on SA? May God bless you anyway, Ernie. 11/21/09 1:48 AM ErnieG    • Posted 22 hours ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments Alan H, You just made a very wise comment. The AV is very clear on what you stated in two scriptures. 2Ti 2:23 "But foolish and unlearned questions avoid,knowing that they do engender strifes." Tit 3:9 "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain." Lurker has been doing this type of thing when JD was posting here. John Y has been advised to leave the RCC and and others have told Jim Lincoln he is promoting a counterfeit Bible, all to no avail! Perhaps JY and JL will come to their right mind before they take their last breath, but neither are listening at this time. There are people that are dying every day that need to hear the gospel. This seems like a much better way to spend the time than on SA. That is not just my opinion as the two scriptures seem to apply here to what you said . 11/21/09 12:45 AM Alan H  | Washington State    • Posted 23 hours ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments John UK & Lurker, Alright, I hadn't wanted to enter into this discussion because I am having a hard time understanding what the point is each of you are trying to make. It is my honest opinion that when there is contention in the heart of two persons debating, there are two things which generally result. Most people would claim only one problem exits, that being, that one side is unwilling to listen; but I am convinced, and these Sermon Audio threads have thoroughly persuaded me of this fact, that not only does that attitude cause the person listening to shut his ears (rather his understanding, or perhaps his willingness to understand), but it also affects the person speaking in such a manner as causes him to communicate in an unclear manner. There is a wall, and both sides have erected it, not just the one, as may be supposed. Neither of you, if I may be so bold, are communicating, you are combatting. Communication is the exchange of ideas, but there is no profit as long as those ideas are rejected. And often they are rejected because they explode upon impact. Isn't this why we have so many one sided conversations on SA? It shouldn't be so, but it is! Anyway, Lurker, it does sound to me, as John suggested, that you stand on the pretrib side of things now. 11/20/09 8:07 PM Lurker    • Posted 27 hours ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments John UK wrote: #1 Now we are in deep water, bro. I can only grasp snippets of the Revelation, but I always thought the 'last trump' was separate from the angels' trumpets. I could do with *a-mill* to help me out here. #2 I wish you wouldn't compare me to JD #3 I received 'eternal life', so according to your fuzzy logic I am now living in the 'world to come'! #4 To get back on topic, you of all people should know that the word 'world' has more than one or two meanings (John 3:16). 1) Alright, we won't go there then. But you really shouldn't judge me as "having a job understanding it" if you don't understand it. Truth be known, you have no idea of my understanding (or lack thereof) of the Revelation because it is a subject I have never discussed on a forum. 2) Sometimes a bit of perspective is helpful, John. I liked JD and wish he would come back to SA again but he did have a bag full of dirty tricks which were extremely frustrating. 3) If comparing scripture to scripture is "fuzzy logic" then I am guilty as charged. But I am convinced you know the danger of creating a doctrine from one or two verses isolated from the rest of scripture. 4) Of course, John. But according to you there is but one "world to come". 11/20/09 6:26 PM John UK  | Wales    • Posted 29 hours ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments Mike wrote: I wonder where he went, too. He did bring a perspective that wasn't pleasing to the Reformed brethren. But you have to expect that when both sides know they are right. Is that "know" another of your famous paradoxes? Maybe the next episode will be "The Return of The JD". It's about time, eh? 11/20/09 5:52 PM Mike  | New York    • Posted 30 hours ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments John UK wrote: Is he now? But soooo frustrating to debate! Whatever became of the lad? I wonder where he went, too. He did bring a perspective that wasn't pleasing to the Reformed brethren. But you have to expect that when both sides know they are right. 11/20/09 5:40 PM John UK  | Wales    • Posted 30 hours ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments Mike wrote: I should think you'd appreciate JD a bit more, John. He's a staunch proponent of the AV. Is he now? But soooo frustrating to debate! Whatever became of the lad? 11/20/09 4:43 PM Mike  | New York    • Posted 31 hours ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments John UK wrote: --- #2 I wish you wouldn't compare me to JD --- I should think you'd appreciate JD a bit more, John. He's a staunch proponent of the AV. 11/20/09 2:30 PM John UK  | Wales    • Posted 33 hours ago • Add new comment • Reply to comment • Report abuse Survey: What Bible Version Do You Use? 159 comments Lurker wrote: Touche' But really John; surely you can do better that pull another JD trick on me. Certainly we should be able to look to the Revelation for some evidence of the "last trump", no? If not there, where? Is it hidden somewhere behind the opening of the sixth seal known only to the enlightened ones? Are you of the crowd who sees the Revelation unfolding chronologically? "and in THE WORLD TO COME eternal life." What did you receive when you forsook all to follow the Lord? #1 Now we are in deep water, bro. I can only grasp snippets of the Revelation, but I always thought the 'last trump' was separate from the angels' trumpets. I could do with *a-mill* to help me out here. #2 I wish you wouldn't compare me to JD #3 I received 'eternal life', so according to your fuzzy logic I am now living in the 'world to come'! #4 To get back on topic, you of all people should know that the word 'world' has more than one or two meanings (John 3:16).

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