Lurker, likewise ! Wayne, Agreed. One thing we all seem to forget,when the church was born there was no Calvin or Arminius. In fact there was no NT as we know it, let alone an OT! (interesting dont you agree that the gentiles would not have known a thing about the Jewish bible, and it wasn't thought necessary either seemingly back then) The first gentile believers didnt have a clue except what they had heard from the apostles. Paul preached Christ crucified and that was it ! They managed, how much more should we with all the knowledge and doctrines available to us ? Or maybe this is the very point...
Bobby, I was shaken by your post. have you been personally affected by terrorism to have caused psycological problems ?
I understand the problem of forgiveness as I have had much to forgive in my life.I refused to forgive the unforgivable (I thought!) but God was (and always is )patient with me for many years until I got to the place that I surrenderd it into his hands for help and healing and begged for the willingness to forgive first. More time went by until I realised I was willing and then God did a miracle in my heart . HE did it, not me and I was free and knew it.! I never did understand why the one person has more to forgive than another therefore we can never judge another as far as they cope with this. prayer is the only solution plus a lot of love from others who make no demands upon you. Peace.
I believe in OSAS. I realise it sounds simple but I know that God does not break his promises. If one is truly committed to Christ and saved then he is for eternity otherwise what would be the point of the sacrifice of our SAVIOUR ?! If we do not know at the moment of death if we are saved or not then we die with pagan dread . if we are not saved forever what do we then have to be joyous and thankful for ? OSAS is not a license to sin as many have said in criticism of this doctrine as we will all fail, but the saved do not desire to sin and will be plagued by conscience and The Holy Spirit always leads us back to the fold in repentance and praise. God himself holds us !!! -The creator of heaven and earth is capable of all things and also of taking care of his beloved but imperfect children leading and guiding and teaching us often through our failings and bad times in his paths towards perfection and --- eternity- PRAISE THE LORD
yes Bobby, Christians are to forgive. Not an easy task though, but correct. We are especially to pray for our enemies that they may be saved. However that does not mean we let them walk all over us ! We did not let the Nazi's do it. or do you think forgiveness means this ?
I also watched it . Interesting that Thatcher iniatiated a lot of this hype !
I was skeptical about man-made global warming some years back after reading different points of view. There is however global warming and cooling and always has been. Why this seems at the moment to be particulary intensifying is not clear though, although probably due to the sun as some scientists explain. We do however cause pollution and this should be discouraged where possible for our health's sake,but within proportions.
Being 'green' is positive and to be encouraged but for the right reasons such as a simple respect for the world God created us to live in, and not the false ones, and certainly not at the cost of the third world. Indeed as the documentary suggests, romanticism of poverty is abominable. We enjoy modern conveninces why shouldn't they?
Agreed cbc- and we will reap what we have sown, the universal principle. Islam has always been the greatest enemy of hsitianity and indeed mankind. It was muzzled for a while but now revived. Maybe, possibly the beast of Rev? islamic countries? beasts n Daniel depict empires....
This is a good and short you tube video worth watching. go to: www.onejerusalem.org/blog/index.asp
and scroll down to Netanjahu takes on maher and Iran
brandon, I have only just seen this. What I meant was that if these people want they can move to their 'roots',say Africa ! I did not mean to their so called ancestral religion, but can see how my rather cynical words can be misunderstood. It is just a blame game, a false nostalgia as they would never really return, they have too many comforts in the US! Therefore they have decided to return to islam which they (falsely on the whole) believe was their ancestral religion. I agree with you !
John that quote about generational sins actually ends with 'to those who hate me' Christians cannot be included in this as Jesus dealt with that on the cross why else are we as you say " blood washed' ?
This does net mean that we will not struggle with temptations, even the same as our forefathers struggled with. I have seen a lot of curses etc being broken when I was in a charismatic church but never did I see it make a difference. In fact the opposite. I have friends obsessed with generational curses who actually attribute everything negative in their lives being due to this One is psycologically disturbed in my view by these ideas but thankfully recently returning to reality and yes hopefully realising that indeed I agree here with cbc ,obedience is the key, rather than running off to every conference for 'healing' and deliverance from goodness knows what.
I discovered the freedom and truth in obedience too after leaving charismatic circles -the emergence of the 'toronto blessing ' being my cue to run a mile- (I had traded the RCC for this -not knowing honestly in the end which was wierder!) Not that I am always obedient but The Lord will always let me know in whatever way he chooses at the time to bring me back on the right path.
John, have been following this debate with interest and perceive how both sides of the argument have their valid points (where that puts me I dont know !)
I am not a follower of the emergent church in the least , but do not agree with all of the criticisms. The most important point though is that we always acknowledge the seriousness of sin in whatever context.
It is in itself true that God loves the sinner and not the sin but it is also true that it is the sinner that ends up in hell-not the 'sin'if not renounced and dealt with through the saving grace of Jesus.!
Bro.Williams Sorry, I did not ask what I intended to I realise ! Does your church actually practice these sin-judging procedures is what I meant to ask? And/or any other churches you know of.? (I am only aware of the JW's practising such)
Do you know of any churches practising the NT Christian way of communal life? This is largely ignored is it not amongst Christians? But very specific ss a guideline for the church..
cbs and bro.williams. I am curious Are you in your churches familiar with the sin-judging practices such as Paul describes and you endorse ? I see as much evidence for this in any church ( I believe common in the JW's however) as I do for communal living as prescribed for NT Christians in acts.
I agree that Jesus must have turned water into wine at Cana.Why else would it be regarded at the time as something amazing ?. If Habbakuk is such an authority why would Jesus have done this and why did Paul tell the elders not to get drunk on "too much wine" How do you get drunk on grapejuice? Try as I can I cant make this sentence into anything than it says....
I agree that it is not advisable to drink much or get into the habit of doing so, but to me the whole point is control and self discipline and how can drinking a little wine be compared to 'a little adultery'
GG By the way, I now have more time to explain...some thing I would like to clear up... Jokes aside for now... I inserted 'well meaning' about the nuns because i had used the word 'pushed'....I did not actually want to give the wrong impression of the nuns, thats all.! Apart from such incidences I enjoyed my school years with the nuns. They were lovely people and very caring.
"No black person living today was torn from his African roots by evil white Christians, nor by evil white non-Christians. Ancestors had the right to complain. Their descendants, free men, do not."
True, just as much as there is nothing stopping anyone African or descended from wherever from returning to their 'roots' if they find it such a big deal and such a loss....
Sorry,Lance but 'presumption' is a sin? Since when ?
PFTD You have me confused .. If you agree a Christian can only get to heaven through conversion, why pray for them and what do you pray
Apart from anything else where is the proof anyone is in heaven (or hell) at the moment? Revelation makes it very clear that there will be a final judgement after all the dead have been raised.Jesus mentions those who his Father gives him being raised on the last day in John,and tells Nicodemus that no-one is in heaven or been there except himself !(Where that puts Elijah and Enoch, I have no idea!) also Paul spends considerable time in 1 Cor.15 explaining the resurrection.Etc.etc.etc.
Either the dead have already been judged and either in heaven or hell, or not and they are in their graves 'sleeping' (as described in OT). Or will they all be summoned out of these places for the final judgement and then return?
As far as interpreting the Bible goes. I wish it were so simple that one only needs to be born again and be led by the Spirit.Millions claim and have claimed such yet there are so many denominations based on various interpretations ! Some matters are just not clear in scripture.
It was interesting to read the comments on that blog,especially those refuting the resurrection.
The most reliable proof for the resurrection is the reaction of the disciples. They obviously believed Jesus rose from the dead as they were willing to sacrifice their very lives for the Gospel ! Who in their right minds would do that if they knew it was a lie ?
3/16/07 3:06 PM
3/15/07 6:40 PM
