Martin Luther also wanted Anabaptists murdered.

Another thing... "civil authority" in USA does have something to do with it...it is illegal. And it is not a command that the Govt. is telling you to disobey.

Read Romans 13.

ICON - The convicting of the Holy Spirit does not mean salvation. It is possible to taste something (conviction) and reject it (because their sin still tastes better).
Jesus is the light of the world that "lighteth EVERY MAN that cometh into the world."
Everyone is drawn in some way. But there comes a time when we reject the Holy Spirit to a point where he will not convict again.

"My Spirit will not always stive with man..."

I think that would end much of this discussion.

Isn't it funny after all these years of Church History, we have some cult leaders come on the scene in the last two centuries and tell us God told them polygamy was right? Joseph Snith also said the African didn't have a soul. Did the Holy Spirit tell him that too?
Oh yah, they changed their doctrin on that one...Joe was wrong.

Remember, the Bible talks about wine in the cluster. So wine doesn't always refer to a liquid, or fermented.

Hey, a man can drink 400 gallons of CocaCola and he will NEVER loose control of his functions and kill innocent people.

Over 40,000 people are killed each year in the US by drunk drivers. Have you ever heard a statistic about people drinking too much milk and running over someone?

In a town I lived in a 16 year old boy's car broke down. His father came to help him, and as they were working on the cr, a drunk driver hit them and killed both of them. Of course the drunk was fine.

That day a mother would never see her husband or son again. And this happens all over the world.

Look at the drunks in Russia...they're everywhere.

I think you need to study the Jewish Betrothal period.

Jesus has one Bride, and so should we!

He died for sin. Remember the Holy Spirit came to convict the world of Sin. And if he died to be the payment for sin, and I am a sinner by nature, as is all the World, whom God loves, then he died for my plague, and the plague of everyone that comes into the world - sin. Paul realized this, and to this he realized he was chief.

And Martin Luther thought the Anabaptists and Lollards of his day should have been executed. What a great authority on Scripture!

Adelphos
So, because you used a quote from an "expert" that settles it?

I just think th there is a revelation here to a principle, and that is we are judged according to what has been revealed. Yes we are born in sin, and it is for that reason we are condemned already. But it is clear all through Scripture that judgment is according to revelation.

30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Acts 17

The Church is still singular, remember? like a body, with many members.

The reason God didn't say anything is because he hadn't given them the revelation we have today. God said he "winked" on their sin (this is not necessarily speaking of polygamy) because they didn't have complete revelation.

One other thing. The marriage is a picture of Christ and his Bride - the Church. And Jesus has only one Bride.

Thomas - was he saved?
Jesus said all of the disciples were, except for Judas. But Thomas didn't believe he was risen. Did he loose his salvation?

You see, if you can loose it, then you have to work to keep it. And if Works can't earn it, HOW ON EARTH CAN THEY KEEP IT!!

Yes, I raised my voice a little

The problem is, you don't understand relationships, and the fact of being adopted and a son of God. God said he would never leave us. But you would say "but we can leave him". And to that I say you were never saved, because an indwelling Holy Spirit could never allow that.

Question:
When Jesus said "I give unto them eternal life", what does the word eternal mean?

If one trusts in Jesus Christ, and is given eternal life, then if he sins it away, how can it then be eternal?

The moment something becomes eternal, it can not be otherwise.

And the Reformed Catholic churches will be joined back to their mother.
Protestants didn't protest the system, they protested the departure from traditional Augustinian theology.

True, very true. But these verses do nothing to prove that someone lost their salvation. It proves that there are people who do works in God's name who are not saved.

tell me something...when do you sin enough to cross the line and loose your salvation? And is it possible to get it back?

About racists...what about Lot who gave his virgin daughters to the putrid men of Sodom to do what they wanted to them all night? God said his (Lot's) "righteous soul" vexed him daily.

What would you think of a man who gave his daughters like throwing out a steak to the dogs? would he be saved?

You see, your arguments have holes in them because by nature we are wicked (you too), and in the flesh we are capable of committing any sin (you might struggle with being homosexual...it's possible in this flesh). When we are redeemed, God doesn't remove the flesh...yet, but he will at the day of redemption, praise God!