From the apostolic era onward, devout Christian scholars have warned concerning the book of Revelation. Some say it is highly suspect; others plainly declare it a forgery. The book was not accepted by the early Church.

Only by the decree of a so-called "Church Council" -- a group of men mired in the heresy of Papistry -- was the book given the appearance of legitimacy.

ALL the "evangelists" and "teachers" and "prophecy teachers" on television tell us every week how much we as a nation are being blessed because we "bless the Jew". For example, listen to John Hagee, or any other of the wolves in sheep's clothing on TBN.

But, sadly, the news report is true, as are others like it which appear daily. America is being judged, because America is helping those who hate the Lord God. And the Christian is being severely disciplined for his part in the whole sordid affair.

From Acts 17:5-8, we see that it is the teaching that "another is king" (not "there is another king") which turned the OIKOUMENE (inhabited earth) upside down.

In John 18:36 Jesus tells the Jews that his kingdom is not of (an extension or derivative of) the then-present KOSMOS (the earthly kingdom of Israel under the Old Covenant); consider Hebrews 7:12.

Jesus came proclaiming and teaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, saying that (the implementation of) the Kingdom was imminent. No message which disagrees with Jesus can be "the Gospel".

Luke 19:11-28 depicts the PAROUSIA ("coming") of Christ, which now is a historical fact.

The primary purpose of the book of Revelation is to portray the reign of Christ as being yet in the future.

The writer "John" of the book could not possibly have been the apostle John; thus the book is a forgery.

A primary factor which distinguishes the Church of the apostolic era from the Church of the present day is the understanding that the Kingdom of God was established and the reign of Christ Jesus began with the Ascension and Session. Consider Acts 17:5-8.

Christians today, foolishly, are waiting for Jesus to return to set up his kingdom. This is because they have been taught and have embraced a false gospel -- a gospel of Jewish myth, rather than the Gospel which Jesus and the apostles proclaimed and taught.

One of the most dastardly lies you ever shall hear is the claim, "The King is coming!" But the Christian who knows the Scripture understands that the King came two thousand years ago and that he today reigns, seated upon the throne of David, which is an everlasting heavenly throne.

Add to that:

What can you say about Talmudic Judaism? Nothing good.

What can you say about Papistry? Nothing good.

Yet many Christians stupidly think that the Papist and the Talmudic Jew somehow are less a threat or more a friend than is the Islamist.

Consider the Jesuits and read Foxe's Book of Martyrs. The Papists have slaughtered in excess of fifty millions of Christians.

It is obvious that your knowledge and understanding of the Christian Faith is insufficient to allow you to make a clear, factual, and reasoned response from the Scripture to the matters being discussed on the various SA forums.

Your habitual resort to name-calling, defamation of character, innuendo, and even lewd remarks provides further evidence of your overall immaturity and, in particular, to your state of spiritual bankruptcy.

Recitation of I John 4:2 as a formula does not make one a Christian. The evidence of genuine conversion is the fruit of the Spirit of God, of which you are barren.

Two matters are being overlooked:

(1) The "works" which are in view with respect to salvation are the works of the law (of Moses), Romans 9:32.

In no sense is ritual baptism a work of the Law. Ritual baptism is an act of obedience.

(2) The Scripture distinguishes between salvation and justification. Justification is the erasure of indebtedness. Salvation is deliverance, the ultimate deliverance being that of resurrection from the dead.

It is impossible to be justified by the works of the law, Galatians 2:16.

However, repentance, faith, obedience, and endurance are required for deliverance.

The Church is NOT a relief organization or a charity. The problems of society are not the responsibility of those who are members of the body of Christ Jesus.

The Christian who spends his time fighting social evils such as abortion and slavery is a fool; the Lord has not called the Christian to involvement in crusades.

The law of Moses today serves as a guide which is applicable to any nation. The closer the law of Caesar conforms to the law of Moses, the better for the nation.

When Christians within the nation generally are faithful to the Scripture and free of doctrinal error, the "salt and light" influence (Matthew 5:13-16) which they exert brings change for the better within society, the Lord working on their behalf.

Rome didn't have a first amendment. The commandment of God is all you need to worry about.

If you lack boldness, perhaps you haven't entered the Way of Life and don't have benefit of the indwelling Spirit of God.

First read carefully Acts 4:1-31 and Acts 5:15-42. Then go back and read the entire book of Acts (and don't skip over Acts 2:38).

With enough persecution, perhaps Christians shall learn that they have been lied to concerning the concept of "angelic rebellion" and Satan being a "fallen angel". The great enemy of Christ -- in Scripture called "Satan" or "the Devil" -- is human government; consider the 2nd Psalm.

I find it curious that Christians generally argue that, in any matter, the declaration of the Word of God must be accepted even if the declaration appears to be contrary to reason or to science -- except with respect to baptism.

All which I know to say I have said already; search SA for "expositor". But to recapitulate:

- baptism is commanded, Acts 2:38

- in the apostolic era, baptism was practiced universally

- in the apostolic era, baptism was considered a matter of utmost urgency

- obedience is required for salvation, 1 Thessalonians 1:8, 1 Peter 4:17

- other things which are commanded include repentance, faith, endurance, and the willingness to sacrifice everything, including life itself

How it is proper, on the basis of human reasoning, to set aside the commandment and the example of the Scripture?

If the Lord commands baptism (and, without question, he does), are you so presumptuous as to tell him that his command is contrary to grace?

You are correct in your assertions concerning the basis of justification being the sacrifice of Christ, irrespective of the epoch (pre-Old Covenant, Old Covenant, New Covenant). We have no argument there.

Jesus could grant salvation to whomever he wished, according to the principle, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy." But he himself paid the price of the mercy he thereby grants. The granting of salvation to anyone is possible only because Jesus paid the penalty of sin.

God is able to extend mercy to the ungodly (aka "unrighteous" aka "wicked") and justify him because (1) as Creator, God has the prerogative to do as he wishes, and (2) the sacrifice of Jesus satisfies the requirements of the justice of God.

According to Romans 9, salvation for everone is a matter of God granting justification to whomever he wishes. No one is deserving of salvation.

Utter stupidity is unteachable. You show yourself to be an utter fool.

Your mindless repetition of Luke 24:39 proves nothing.

Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 describes the nature of the resurrection body; but you reject that teaching.

You ask what it is to covet. The Scripture itself defines the term:

Exodus 20:17 - Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife; thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house; nor his field, nor his servant, nor his maid, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any of his cattle, nor whatever belongs to thy neighbour.

Deuteronomy 5:21 - Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife; thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, nor his field, nor his man-servant, nor his maid, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any beast of his, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Romans 13:8-10 - Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Regarding justification of the wicked: Proverbs 17:15 and Exodus 23:7 are commands to men regarding temporal affairs.

You appear to be oblivious to the fact that, apart from justification of the unrighteous by God himself, no man would escape the sentence of death:

While some "scientists" claim to be atheists (and thus, evolutionists) in an attempt to evade moral responsibility, others have been driven to the nonsense of "theistic evolution" by the teaching of "Christians" who, in the realm of Scriptural interpretation, are long on zeal but short on intellect.

I think you would find both sensible and enlightening the book "The Genesis Question" by astronomer Hugh Ross. His organization, Reasons to Believe, has a web site named reasons.org.

I have presented the evidence time and time again. If you wish chapter and verse, just look up my comments on SA under "expositor".

The problem is that you and your cronies are not listening and not thinking. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Jesus, talking to Nicodemus (John 3) and Paul, writing to the Corinthians (1 Corinthans 15) are speaking of the same thing.

That Christ Jesus is the first man ever to be resurrected is established beyond doubt by 1 Corinthians 15:20, and is alluded to by other passages. Yet you refuse to acknowledge even that truth.

So your demand for proof texts is not sincere. You wish only to be left alone in comfort to follow and to disseminate your false traditions.

You find security in the fact that generation after generation of Protestants have embraced the same tradition. But that is a false basis for security. Having been exposed to the truth, you cannot plead ignorance of it. The Scripture commands you to prove all things; and that you refuse to do.

mike -

The meaning of a word is determined by the context in which the word appears. You, on the basis of your false, non-Scriptural tradition, have assigned meanings which are foreign to the Scripture.

As but one example, the meaning of the term "resurrection" (Greek ANASTASIS) as it used by Paul in the 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians, though obvious and precise, does not at all agree with your definition.

If you really are a "preacher" with a congregation, I urge you to print out this entire thread and provide a copy to each member of your congregation. Should you do so, and if any of them are the sheep of God, I think you soon would out be looking for other employment.