ELECTION
not always what its cracked up to be.

And we believe--(the twelve)
All there is to it, RIGHT?

Jesus spoke in parables, why?
Matthew 13:13
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand

John 6

67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

70Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Then said Jesus unto the twelve
Will ye also go away
Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go
And
And we--(the twelve)
And we believe--(the twelve)
And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve
Have not I chosen you twelve
Have not I chosen
and one of you is a devil?
Jesus answered them
Have not I chosen a devil?

ELECTION
not always what its cracked up to be.

You know, there is a God.

The suspect, whose identity was being traced, initially refused to undergo a routine body check "for religious reasons

Don't think the man was a priest
But he did have "religious reason"
People trust him , he looks like a man of God.

If it walks like a duck,
and looks like a duck,
and sounds like a duck,

lyn wrote:
Wherefore, excellent post, discernment is essential is this time that we live in. Our Lord warns on several occasions to be watchful, to watch and pray. We are commanded to 'look for and hasten the day of God'-2 Peter 3:12, also 1 Cor. 1:7-8, and Titus 2:13-15. His parable of the ten virgins teaches on the necessity for watchfulness-Matthew 25:1-13. As things get progressively worse around the globe, let's not fall into a slumber; let's be alert, be ready, and be watchmen on the wall.

Weapon of Mass Instruction wrote:
There is no such thing as a one-sided relationship.

Your motto:
Sola Calvinism!

Doc
Is that right
See I've been married 3 times
You really want to say that.

Your motto:
Sola Calvinism

Yours too.
Some days you get the calvinist, some days he gets you.

Is it just the sport Doc?
NO HUNTING
Im not a calvinist, but you got to love them.

Is it true that their, what like congress has the seats numbered
and seat number 666 is vacant.?

Mike wrote:
Some think draw means force, which of course it does not, as John 12:32 shows:
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
If draw meant irresistably force, then all men would be saved. They aren't, so it doesn't.
Of course no one can come to Christ unless the Father draw him. (John 6:44) But not all drawn will come. (see John 12:32 again) There is no conflict between these verses, unless one includes irresistable drawing as a concept.

Weapon of Mass Instruction wrote:
ooops, I missed it.
Sorry.
What was your question?

Weapon of Mass Instruction wrote:
Noone is denying that the Father is involved in salvation. The argument is whether man is involved. The fact that it states that man comes, proves that their is an action that man is to make.
John 6:44 clearly states that salvation starts with God. What you are want it to state is that man is unable to come to God period as if he has no ability to come to God. As I said before, if there were a period after "me" than you would have an argument.
Unfortunately you do not have one.
If you care to allow the Scripture to speak for itself you will discover that John 6:44 simply states that man will not come to God without God's involvement. Man is not going to wake up one day and decide that he will come to God. God has to be involved in drawing him to himself.
Who is the object of his drawing?
Well 12:32 clearly states that God draws all men.
That's Scripture interpreting scripture in play there. Something that you cry that one should do but you refuse to do. The only thing I see is Calvinism interpreting scripture.
Now tell me, where does it state in John 6:44 that he selects only a few to be saved?

You would be absolutely right if it had a period after "me".
you would know that the subject at hand is the ressurection of the dead

Terry,
No.

Thanks
If I may, funny, the grammer question
I truly know its a God thing, Doc

You say,
You would be absolutely right if it had a period after "me".
It does, it goes on to say
John 6 (King James Version)
44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
SEE
me, except the Father
I think there should be a (,) after Father. No man can come to me except the Father,
Doc
Jesus And The Farther, Are They One?
You say
you would know that the subject at hand is the ressurection of the dead

If you split the verse in half, maybe I
understand thats what the catholics
do to the 10 Commandments Of God in their Bible
(not a good example to follow)

Anyway, it says
which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (period)
or
and I will raise him up at the last day.
WHO:which hath sent me draw him
WHO-draw him- the unsaved

WHO:I will raise -God, God will
Doc, are THEY ONE?

Weapon of Mass Instruction wrote:
it is much easier to argue against a strawman than it is to face the dehvastating truth.

The dehvastating truth is nowhere in the Bible

Your the grammer expert, is the above
a double negitive?

I was so religious, .. I was as lost

Hi Derek
Well, that upset the apple cart
No problem, we can always pick'em up
You say,
What I am saying is the Calvinist presupposition is wrong

John Yurich wrote:
As a practicing Catholic who prayed to Christ and asked Him to become my Savior during an Altar Call at my brother's Non Denominational Church I naturally believe that justification is by faith in Christ alone. I was under the conviction of the Holy Spirit to receive Christ as my Savior.

Derek wrote:
Question

What arrogance to think that God could not handle your free ability to choose.

1.to think that God could not
(are you not putting limits on God yourself)

2.handle your free ability to choose
(think about that)

Derek
Most of your comments are very edifing.
Just as most other men when they resort
to verbal assult, they error.

Jim Cody wrote:
R.K. Borill,
Even if Paul intended to forbid women in church leadership it does not follow that his prohibition would extend to civil government. The verse has nothing to say about civil government better In what way is that different than the way Muslim men treat women Why do you constantly feel the need to lord over In what way is that different than the way Muslim men treat women?

I don't think Christ
Neil,
My point in mentioning Elizabeth was to illustrate that women are not universally inferior to men or by nature

but where exactly are you all getting your concept of “ought”? Where in the Bible does it say women can’t have any civil authority?

1 Wishes:4,1
Jim Cody,the Bible does it say women can’t have any civil authority, yes.

Jim
As you know things are not so black and white in the Bible, as with any other book.

I don't think Christ
There you go, the Bible is not politically correct
His ways are not our ways

is that different than the way Muslim men treat women
Yes, do we beat ours because they break
a christian law

Margaret Thatcher wrote:
You're right, the real Margaret Thatcher would never say such a thing. Would she ..... ?

Mother Charged in 4 D.C. Girls' Deaths

Father Denies He Dropped 4 Off Bridge

Teenagers indicted in shooting at Las Vegas school bus stop that wounded 6

Some things that concern christians on this thread today (latest, in order)

Weapon of Mass Instruction
Spiritual choices does not equal good choices

R. K. Borill
Jesus was not scolding Nicodemus; he was teaching him as the Great Master He is

Mike
Yet doesn't that conflict with the ability being prior to the hunger? Clarify

terry evans
Preach it (great comment)

Picky Picky
Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven

Discerning Believer
It doesn't say "might come to me" or "maybe will come to me", it says "SHALL come to me"

Cont Finney
If you cannot be bothered to read my posts carefully, then stop corresponding

The battle is Spiritual
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are TAKEN CAPTIVE BY HIM AT WILL

In a file photo evangelist Benny Hinn, raises his hands in prayer during a service at the Blaisdell Concert Hall in Honolulu, Hawaii, Jan. RONEN ZILBERMANBy JUSTIN JUOZAPAVICIUS (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
January 10, 2008 11:14 PM EST
TULSA, Okla. - Two televangelists have resigned their posts as regents at Oral Roberts University, as the debt-ridden school tries to regroup following a spending scandal involving its former president. The university on Thursday also settled with one of three professors who filed a wrongful termination lawsuit against the school.

Benny Hinn and I.V. Hilliard resigned as regents, where they were involved in making major school decisions

Its a small world afterall

Benny Hinn and I.V. Hilliard resigned as regents as the debt-ridden school tries to regroup

The love of money
This school may not be a church
But don't they teach the shepards

Michael Hranek wrote:
Saint Terry
I believe you are on to something not necessarily that our Catholic friends are driven away but rather drawn out of the RCC and drawn to Jesus Christ as they see:
God has saved sinners such as ourselves and so changed us by His Power, Mercy and Grace that we are now and will be forever objects of His Love that passes all human understanding.
Love that lifts a poor shepherd boy and make him a King
Love that cleanses leper and makes them clean again
Love that doesn't condemn a woman caught in the very act of adultery but does tell her go and sin no more
Love that overthrew Pharoah and his army in the red sea
Love that will one day soon gather the either family of God to be with the Father forever.
I kind of got rambling there
It is impossible to make ourselves to be this kind of saint only God Himself can do this...
And He does! Praise God! Praise God!

I kind of got rambling there

Ramble on, such sweet words