No need to guard your heart with all diligence (Proverbs 4:23), a waste of time, you're just going to do what God preordained for you to do. (*this conclusion comes not from the Bible but your own logic as all of your previous verses have done)
Your conclusion can make sense if you are on equal footing with God on seeing the future.
YOUR VIEW: waste of time, your just going to do what God preordained for you to do. GOD's VIEW:Isaiah 48:11 For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it, for how should my name be profaned? My glory I will not give to another.
God giving us a command we cant follow does NOT minimize nor JUSTIFY you in any way shape or form from following it...it actually serves to show YOU that He is GOD and YOU are not...and you need God's help to obey Him.
The Bible teaches BOTH! Here is one Biblical example. Judas was responsible for all of HIS actions.... to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.â (Acts 1:25 ) but yet GOD used his evil actions for HIS purpose and His Glory without any fault or responsibility. this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, (Acts 2:23 )
Michael Hranek wrote: Kind of makes me want to look into: "The Gospel Worthy of all Acceptation" by ANDREW FULLER
Most excellent article, bro. Thanks for posting that. It sure explains how it was that some particular Baptists fell away into hyperman category, and how Andrew Fuller was caught up in it until he chose to read scripture and get his understanding from that holy source.
I would love to know who the other nine baptists are.
But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."
The Jewish men were saying they were saved in the same manner as the Gentiles. Not sure why you would say the Jews weren't saved, but I can only assume it has something to do with your antisemitism or anti-Jewish sentiment.
Michael, to 'stop right there' as you say, is to stop short of understanding the whole counsel. You quote more verses, which is good. If, however, you are insisting that Paul is teaching belief precedes regeneration, then you are not rightly understanding what Paul teaches.
no doubt, God is grieved when a child is assaulted. God does not design for that to happen.
God is not manifested by a garbage dump.
Man's sin is manifested that we may be witness to our own evil.
And death has to come to all man because we've fallen short of the glory of God.
The evidence of the fall is all around us.
But when one broken vessel is pulled out of the miry clay, even one who has been assaulted by the world, then he or she gives glory to God and God is manifested.
We are born in sin, yet Christ saves and redeems everyday, God is even glorified through the pagan when he lives out the law, as can happen partially, for instance in a peaceful marriage where children are loved. God is glorified by what He has made. This is a reflection of God's design.
When it comes to salvation, I have a sense of mystery and awe. I think there are clear teachings though such as...
regeneration predestination election man's will and responsibility for his sin man's depravity justification sanctification
I'm sure I'm missing much. To God be the glory, but to say salvation is a choice man makes I think is going too far. There is a point when a sinner's eyes are opened and they understand, but scripture demands the feet of good news, that's us... to me its like looking at the mechanisms of the human eye. Its amazing and complicated and its the hand of God, but the human experience of salvation, I think, is unique to each person.
ladybug wrote: Michael H, You state "It is NOT written FAITH comes by regeneration" and provide Romans 10 as a proof text. That's fine,
Ladybug And you should have stopped right there
Lurker is wrong, and abusing other verses doesn't nullify Romans 10 nor Titus 3 and it certainly doesn't make him right
I will certainly agree with you 'Jeremiah 17:9 describes the human heart, desperately wicked and deceitful' something "one eyed Calvinists" demonstrate over and over again in their false teaching that lost people are totally unable to respond the convicting work of the Holy Spirit and the Word (or the Gospel too)
often accusing non-Calvinists of things we are simply not saying in regards to the complete sovereignty of God in Salvation
Paul is correct, not Lurker nor Calvin as it applies
Unprofitable Servant, you always make good sense in your posts, and your contributions have been most helpful to me, and no doubt to many others. Sure, it is a difficult subject, as is the Providence of God. We can glean much from the Book of Job, but at the time it is little wonder that Job's comforters had it all wrong, despite being full of theology and answers.
Great Sermon! My soul rejoices when I come across Ministers that still take the World literally, that fears God and want to walk in His ways, thank you and bless you! I always remember preachers like you in my prayers!
You state "It is NOT written FAITH comes by regeneration" and provide Romans 10 as a proof text. That's fine, however, there are other verses that must be considered as well; verses such as Ephesians 2:1,5 which state man is dead in sin until quickened by God. The doctrine of regeneration is essential in understanding how you are able to believe. If you are dead in sin, unable to receive the things of the Spirit of God, as Paul states in 1 Cor. 2:14, then something must take place before you can believe. So many churches want to trot the 'Roman Road' out there like that's all there is to salvation, just believe and you are saved. Yes, but HOW are you able to believe? What causes you to believe in Christ and others to continue on the broad road? Jeremiah 17:9 describes the human heart, desperately wicked and deceitful. The definition for those are 'crooked,polluted and incurable, sick, woeful'. This is the condition of every sinner ever born. How does such a heart respond to the Gospel on it's own? Ez. 36:26 tells us how God works in such a heart - "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you art heart of flesh." Lurker is correct
PursuitofTruth wrote: .. We cannot understand this .
Dear P.o.T, in all due respect, that is what we term a cop out. The examples you site Trinity, eternity, etc. have multiple verse support in the Scripture. Where do we find God foreordained all actions, the WCF, that is it. No Bible verse backs it up. This isn't about the sovereignty of God or His rule. This isn't about His providence, or any of the points of TULIP. This isn't about the working of God in the salvation of sinners, nor God's omniscience or omnipotence. This isn't about the times of God's intervention in the affairs of men to work His will. This is about man's responsibility. For instance why would we give an account of every idle word if we only spoke what God preordained for us?
No one has chosen to answer my question about what has been termed the Lord's prayer. The answer I have seen from multiple sources is we can't comprehend it. James asked for Scriptural proof, I have brought up many. We have demonstrated the verses you and others quote don't teach that God predetermines all actions of men.
Brother John UK, not sure this discussion is going to make much more progress, may drop from the thread. God's blessings to all.
Mike wrote: Hi PoT, What's to understand? God is not responsible for sin because he does not ordain that man should sin. Man is responsible because, as it has been written in Mark 7:21-23 "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man." These things were never ordained by God that they should happen, they come from within man. God being in control means everything that happens, he either ordains, or allows. Not as WCF3/1 says, ordains "whatsoever comes to pass." Scripture is clear. Establishing a sound definition of ordain helps.
Thank you Mike, you are far better with words than I, and that is precisely the point I am trying to make, albeit poorly.
PursuitofTruth wrote: --- Scripture makes it very clear that God is both in control of everything that happens, and is not responsible for sin. We as fallen human beings do not understand this, but neither do we the Trinnity. Does that mean it's any less true? Can you really understand how one God, can also be three seperate, individual persons in one? I'd like to see you explain that in a satasfactory way! Just because high and mighty man can't understand it, doesn't mean that it isn't true.
Hi PoT, What's to understand? God is not responsible for sin because he does not ordain that man should sin. Man is responsible because, as it has been written in
Mark 7:21-23 "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."
These things were never ordained by God that they should happen, they come from within man. God being in control means everything that happens, he either ordains, or allows. Not as WCF3/1 says, ordains "whatsoever comes to pass." Scripture is clear. Establishing a sound definition of ordain helps.